Infidelity in fic
Part 3 of my "endless discussions with 
anatsuno that believe it or not were all recorded in a single day" not-podfic/not-podcast is about infidelity in fic. This is one of the things that we had a great conversation about earlier that we didn't record, but I think there's still some interesting stuff in the 9 minutes we got.
I added this in the comments:
"I think the thing we were trying to say but probably failing, or at least what I was trying to say, is that I don't feel that "fidelity" is the ultimate measure of love. And you're right, for most people in fandom it is, but I don't think that the idea that they're meant for each other actually contradicts one cheating on the other. I'm still a little mystified at just how rare cheating fic is in the parts of fandom I've been in, given how common cheating is in real life. The narrative about infidelity that's represented in most fic is the same: fidelity is proof of love, and infidelity is proof that they don't love each other enough, or that they're not "meant for each other." I respect that some people have been deeply hurt by personal experiences of infidelity and don't ever want to read about it, but it bothers me that people write about their OTPs doing all kinds of horrible things to each other and making pretty much every possible relationship mistake, and they can still be made for each other, but they can't ever cheat, oh no. That would be unforgivable.
I have never seen the narrative of infidelity, regret, and forgiveness represented in a fanfic. Ever. And it's not an uncommon story in real life."
I'd love to see more fanfic where half the pairing sleeps with lots of other people because they're in denial about how much they're falling for the other half. The usual story is "they just didn't want sex with other people any more, and that clued them in to their real feelings," but plenty of the time, being infatuated with one person can just up one's energy and sex drive in general.
I personally find the infidelity/forgiveness narrative really compelling and romantic for the same reasons I find some kinds of "open relationship" fic compelling. I love stories where one character just can't seem to stop sleeping around, and it's not (completely) unhealthy just a fundamental part of who they are, and their partner has to realize that and accept it. Basically, the story where the monogamist and the slut get together and instead of the slut giving it all up for love, the monogamist gives up their ideal relationship style for love. And that can be really positive and sweet, both characters growing to be happy with their compromise, or it can be angsty and still utterly romantic to me.
I think this is a symptom of something messed up in my head: the idea of a person accepting an arrangement that they're unhappy with because it's the only way to have anything at all with the person they love is totally OTP to me. If it's the slut giving it up, it's rarely presented as something they actually have a hard time with: they just don't want anyone else anymore, so not pushing that button for me. This is hooked into my feelings about jealousy. To me, jealousy is the anti-romance most of the time because it signifies a) insecurity and b) not loving someone enough to work through their own emotions. If it's a story about how a character learns to deal with jealousy, fine. If it's one about how expressing jealousy is romantic, I hit the back button. I just can't connect with that. This is probably why I love Ianto/Jack/Doctor love triangles where Ianto knows Jack will go running off at a moment's notice but he would rather be with Jack knowing that than not be with him at all. <3 swoon so angstily romantic!
A lot of this is probably down to me being polyamorous, and having poly urges at an early age even before I knew it existed as a thing that was possible, and also never having been cheated on in my formative years. I've spent a lot more time trying and failing to get someone to accept the idea of non-monogamy than I have worrying if someone could be cheating or being jealous of a partner's outside involvements, so my romantic fantasy is about my relationship style being accepted by a new partner who's not already in a non-monogamous subculture. I can like these characters, even if they cheat, because I identify with them, even though I don't cheat. I've spent plenty of time doing monogamy because I wanted to be with someone. And it was never magic, and my interest in others never disappeared, and I just feel totally alienated by stories where that happens. I'm sure it does happen. Plenty of idealized love stories appeal to me, this just isn't one of them.
This entry was originally posted at http://krytella.dreamwidth.org/13878.html. Please comment there using OpenID.
anatsuno that believe it or not were all recorded in a single day" not-podfic/not-podcast is about infidelity in fic. This is one of the things that we had a great conversation about earlier that we didn't record, but I think there's still some interesting stuff in the 9 minutes we got.
I added this in the comments:
"I think the thing we were trying to say but probably failing, or at least what I was trying to say, is that I don't feel that "fidelity" is the ultimate measure of love. And you're right, for most people in fandom it is, but I don't think that the idea that they're meant for each other actually contradicts one cheating on the other. I'm still a little mystified at just how rare cheating fic is in the parts of fandom I've been in, given how common cheating is in real life. The narrative about infidelity that's represented in most fic is the same: fidelity is proof of love, and infidelity is proof that they don't love each other enough, or that they're not "meant for each other." I respect that some people have been deeply hurt by personal experiences of infidelity and don't ever want to read about it, but it bothers me that people write about their OTPs doing all kinds of horrible things to each other and making pretty much every possible relationship mistake, and they can still be made for each other, but they can't ever cheat, oh no. That would be unforgivable.
I have never seen the narrative of infidelity, regret, and forgiveness represented in a fanfic. Ever. And it's not an uncommon story in real life."
I'd love to see more fanfic where half the pairing sleeps with lots of other people because they're in denial about how much they're falling for the other half. The usual story is "they just didn't want sex with other people any more, and that clued them in to their real feelings," but plenty of the time, being infatuated with one person can just up one's energy and sex drive in general.
I personally find the infidelity/forgiveness narrative really compelling and romantic for the same reasons I find some kinds of "open relationship" fic compelling. I love stories where one character just can't seem to stop sleeping around, and it's not (completely) unhealthy just a fundamental part of who they are, and their partner has to realize that and accept it. Basically, the story where the monogamist and the slut get together and instead of the slut giving it all up for love, the monogamist gives up their ideal relationship style for love. And that can be really positive and sweet, both characters growing to be happy with their compromise, or it can be angsty and still utterly romantic to me.
I think this is a symptom of something messed up in my head: the idea of a person accepting an arrangement that they're unhappy with because it's the only way to have anything at all with the person they love is totally OTP to me. If it's the slut giving it up, it's rarely presented as something they actually have a hard time with: they just don't want anyone else anymore, so not pushing that button for me. This is hooked into my feelings about jealousy. To me, jealousy is the anti-romance most of the time because it signifies a) insecurity and b) not loving someone enough to work through their own emotions. If it's a story about how a character learns to deal with jealousy, fine. If it's one about how expressing jealousy is romantic, I hit the back button. I just can't connect with that. This is probably why I love Ianto/Jack/Doctor love triangles where Ianto knows Jack will go running off at a moment's notice but he would rather be with Jack knowing that than not be with him at all. <3 swoon so angstily romantic!
A lot of this is probably down to me being polyamorous, and having poly urges at an early age even before I knew it existed as a thing that was possible, and also never having been cheated on in my formative years. I've spent a lot more time trying and failing to get someone to accept the idea of non-monogamy than I have worrying if someone could be cheating or being jealous of a partner's outside involvements, so my romantic fantasy is about my relationship style being accepted by a new partner who's not already in a non-monogamous subculture. I can like these characters, even if they cheat, because I identify with them, even though I don't cheat. I've spent plenty of time doing monogamy because I wanted to be with someone. And it was never magic, and my interest in others never disappeared, and I just feel totally alienated by stories where that happens. I'm sure it does happen. Plenty of idealized love stories appeal to me, this just isn't one of them.
This entry was originally posted at http://krytella.dreamwidth.org/13878.html. Please comment there using OpenID.