Well, it was Cas' own decision not to ask for advice. How did the conversation go?
Cas: Where were you when I needed you? Dean: I was right here. Where were you?
He didn't go to Dean because he wanted to protect him. But then pride got in the way, just like with Sam. Just like Sam, Cas started to think he knew better.
I don't see any character assassination. Dean tried to talk some sense into him, even after he found out that Cas has been spying on them for who knows how long, he tried to tell him it was the wrong way to do, that when a problem like that presented itself, they dealt with it, together, but by then, Cas was committed to his plan with no way out.
The whole thing started with a good intention - but a road to hell is paved with them. So, for me, Cas and Sam's situation was no different. They both should've known better, but when they finally turned to Dean, they were so deep in their lies that he couldn't trust them anymore.
The point is the writers decided to take a sympathetic character that was a fan favorite and turned him into a bad guy for no other reason than to be 'edgy'. As you said, Sam and Cass both made horrible choices, but Sam was always given a free pass
( ... )
Honestly, I don't see Dean as a hypocrite. How did the conversation go?
Dean: We can FIX this, Cas! Cas: There is nothing TO fix, Dean!
Seriously, how many times should Dean have tried? He tried in the circle, he tried again in the house. When Cas refused to listen to reason, Dean ASKED him not to do it, as a brother. How is that hypocritical?
And then, Crowley, Castiel's partner in crime, kidnapped Lisa and Ben. With that, all bets were off because Dean really didn't have any reason to believe Cas knew nothing about it.
I think that if Crowley hadn't done that, Dean wouldn't have given up on Cas but that was the last straw. And then it just kept piling up and up and up.
He tried asking after trapping Cas in the circle you mean, that's like holding a gun to a person's head and saying 'let's talk'.
How many times has Cas saved Dean? Crowley has Ben and Lisa kidnapped, not Cas.
I'm not saying that Cas is totally innocent, I'm saying is if his so-called family would have tried to listen more, things might have been avoided.
And we're coming back to my main complaint that I think you're missing. I'm ticked that the writers went this direction. They didn't have to and choose this angle.
Yes, it was Crowley who kidnapped them - and Dean has only Cas' word that he didn't know anything about it. The word of a man who lied to them time and time again when it came to Crowley. So, I don't blame him for not believing him.
I get your point, I'm just saying that the direction - popular or not - wasn't OOC or character assassination because I can follow the logic in every decision the characters made based on who they are.
Do I like the fact that Cas went dark? No. Did they have to go there? No. Does it make for some compelling character exploration and story telling? IMHO, yes.
I hope that the writers will make Cas the Willow of Supernatural - someone who's given great power, misuses it with good intentions and has to find his way back to himself.
I guess the question stands that after building a character for three years and destroying that same character in a few episodes, do I trust the writers to actually do something compelling?
Honestly, I would've preferred Cas lilly white and friendly with the Winchesters too - for the slash alone ;P - but since they felt they had to go there, I was glad that I could actually follow the characters' actions, their logic. I didn't have to always like it - and I didn't, I sometimes wanted to shake them and tell them, "Just TALK!" - but I could follow them.
I think the biggest problem there was that both sides (Dean and Cas alike) were just giving ultimatums... You are either with me, or against me. None of them were open to discussion, none of them have given the other the benefit of doubt. Too stubborn for their own good:-)
Lol, right. My first thought in such a situation would be to talk it all out. Talk, cry, talk again. So everytime I see guys just saying: Do this, or I'll do that, and not giving an explanation as to WHY?!? I'm just shaking my head and thinking 'Men!'
Cas: Where were you when I needed you?
Dean: I was right here. Where were you?
He didn't go to Dean because he wanted to protect him. But then pride got in the way, just like with Sam. Just like Sam, Cas started to think he knew better.
I don't see any character assassination. Dean tried to talk some sense into him, even after he found out that Cas has been spying on them for who knows how long, he tried to tell him it was the wrong way to do, that when a problem like that presented itself, they dealt with it, together, but by then, Cas was committed to his plan with no way out.
The whole thing started with a good intention - but a road to hell is paved with them. So, for me, Cas and Sam's situation was no different. They both should've known better, but when they finally turned to Dean, they were so deep in their lies that he couldn't trust them anymore.
Reply
Reply
Dean: We can FIX this, Cas!
Cas: There is nothing TO fix, Dean!
Seriously, how many times should Dean have tried? He tried in the circle, he tried again in the house. When Cas refused to listen to reason, Dean ASKED him not to do it, as a brother. How is that hypocritical?
And then, Crowley, Castiel's partner in crime, kidnapped Lisa and Ben. With that, all bets were off because Dean really didn't have any reason to believe Cas knew nothing about it.
I think that if Crowley hadn't done that, Dean wouldn't have given up on Cas but that was the last straw. And then it just kept piling up and up and up.
Reply
How many times has Cas saved Dean? Crowley has Ben and Lisa kidnapped, not Cas.
I'm not saying that Cas is totally innocent, I'm saying is if his so-called family would have tried to listen more, things might have been avoided.
And we're coming back to my main complaint that I think you're missing. I'm ticked that the writers went this direction. They didn't have to and choose this angle.
Reply
I get your point, I'm just saying that the direction - popular or not - wasn't OOC or character assassination because I can follow the logic in every decision the characters made based on who they are.
Do I like the fact that Cas went dark? No. Did they have to go there? No. Does it make for some compelling character exploration and story telling? IMHO, yes.
I hope that the writers will make Cas the Willow of Supernatural - someone who's given great power, misuses it with good intentions and has to find his way back to himself.
Reply
Not sure.
I will hope though. *clings to hope*
Reply
Didn't want you to confuse passion for anger :-P
Reply
Honestly, I would've preferred Cas lilly white and friendly with the Winchesters too - for the slash alone ;P - but since they felt they had to go there, I was glad that I could actually follow the characters' actions, their logic. I didn't have to always like it - and I didn't, I sometimes wanted to shake them and tell them, "Just TALK!" - but I could follow them.
Reply
Reply
Why can't men talk to one another? lol Take a time out and go sit in a corner and think things out .
Reply
Reply
Leave a comment