more on the shrine
Okay, okay, I know. But this is the last weekend before classes start, I have a reading assignment due for Thursday already, so, well, let met take this opportunity for my last fannish squees before they become "Squee! God, I should really be doing something else!" :)
Anyway, I was thinking more about the pier scene, and what comes before it, because I really didn't say much about it at the time. I mean, clearly it was awesome, but the fandom loves it SO MUCH OMG.
I do, too, obviously.
While I was watching it, and then thinking about it, I kept remembering something pocky_slash said at Shore Leave at some point when we were talking about John and Rodney. (Which was A LOT of the time.) Anyway, she said that sometimes she thinks that fandom has it backwards, that people think Rodney is the gloom and doom and everybody's gonna die guy, and John is more the we're going to get through this guy. Clearly, mileage varies and not everyone in fandom thinks that. (Though perhaps casual watchers might. Like the ones running Rodney's panel. ANYWAY.) And that's what kinds of things they say in tough situations, Rodney moaning that they're going to die horrible deaths and John assuring that, no, they're not.
But the thing is, and I think this is really right, Kait was saying that it's really the opposite: Rodney, for all his moaning, underneath thinks that, yeah, he can fix this, it'll be fine in the end, it always is, and it's John who has seen all this disaster and death and tragedy happen and inside he really *doesn't* think it's going to be fine, because in his experience it so often isn't. The reassurance is more for Rodney than because John really believes it -- it's more that this is what they *do* than what they actually think. Though I do like the idea that in his deepest layer, even under the most pessimistic part, John has come to believe Rodney *can* fix it all the time.
Anyway, I think that's exactly right. And I was thinking, then, about their relationship and the scene on the pier, and about John's absolute refusal to say goodbye. I think that was partly about the fact that John was going to stand by Rodney until he was cold in the ground, period. But I also think some of that was a protection against the fact that John really *did* think it was all going to end, badly, right there, in the next few days. John always *says* it's going to be fine, but he never really *believes* it will be. And with Rodney on that pier, he couldn't do anything but keep up with that pattern, and the more he believes that Rodney can fix things, or that things can get better, the more he has to keep saying they will be, right? It's almost superstitious in a way. Anyway, John believes it will end in disaster, so he somehow then has to verbally fight that, say the opposite, because how often does John talk about what he's really feeling anyway?
That . . . doesn't really make sense, huh? Okay, let me try again, sort of. John's the one with the leave no man/person/tree/inanimate object/sock behind policy, right? That's not just because of the military or the training, that's John. And it's John because John has seen TOO MANY people left behind. I even think it's because John himself feels left behind, but that's my pet theory about him and his family and whatever. He leaves no one behind because of all the disaster, not in spite of it. It's not an act of optimism, or bravery, it's an act of desperation.
So refusing to say goodbye on the pier is John's version of no man left behind in this case. I don't think he's doing it out of optimism, in other words. I think it's his way of saying, even though this is terrible, and it's going to end horribly, and that's what I really think, I'm not going to say goodbye because that's leaving you behind, that's saying it's over, and I never do that.
Um. This was a lot clearer in my head. :)
Okay, well, I started this hours ago and have since gone to both the drugstore and the coffee shop. Huh.
I also love how in an episode all about Rodney I managed to talk non-stop about JOHN. Sheesh.
Oh, and one thing about Jeannie. When she was excusing herself from Rodney, and she called him sweetie and got up, I thought, "Wow, that's motherhood. She's definitely a mom." It was about Rodney, not about her. I just love that.
Anyway, I was thinking more about the pier scene, and what comes before it, because I really didn't say much about it at the time. I mean, clearly it was awesome, but the fandom loves it SO MUCH OMG.
I do, too, obviously.
While I was watching it, and then thinking about it, I kept remembering something pocky_slash said at Shore Leave at some point when we were talking about John and Rodney. (Which was A LOT of the time.) Anyway, she said that sometimes she thinks that fandom has it backwards, that people think Rodney is the gloom and doom and everybody's gonna die guy, and John is more the we're going to get through this guy. Clearly, mileage varies and not everyone in fandom thinks that. (Though perhaps casual watchers might. Like the ones running Rodney's panel. ANYWAY.) And that's what kinds of things they say in tough situations, Rodney moaning that they're going to die horrible deaths and John assuring that, no, they're not.
But the thing is, and I think this is really right, Kait was saying that it's really the opposite: Rodney, for all his moaning, underneath thinks that, yeah, he can fix this, it'll be fine in the end, it always is, and it's John who has seen all this disaster and death and tragedy happen and inside he really *doesn't* think it's going to be fine, because in his experience it so often isn't. The reassurance is more for Rodney than because John really believes it -- it's more that this is what they *do* than what they actually think. Though I do like the idea that in his deepest layer, even under the most pessimistic part, John has come to believe Rodney *can* fix it all the time.
Anyway, I think that's exactly right. And I was thinking, then, about their relationship and the scene on the pier, and about John's absolute refusal to say goodbye. I think that was partly about the fact that John was going to stand by Rodney until he was cold in the ground, period. But I also think some of that was a protection against the fact that John really *did* think it was all going to end, badly, right there, in the next few days. John always *says* it's going to be fine, but he never really *believes* it will be. And with Rodney on that pier, he couldn't do anything but keep up with that pattern, and the more he believes that Rodney can fix things, or that things can get better, the more he has to keep saying they will be, right? It's almost superstitious in a way. Anyway, John believes it will end in disaster, so he somehow then has to verbally fight that, say the opposite, because how often does John talk about what he's really feeling anyway?
That . . . doesn't really make sense, huh? Okay, let me try again, sort of. John's the one with the leave no man/person/tree/inanimate object/sock behind policy, right? That's not just because of the military or the training, that's John. And it's John because John has seen TOO MANY people left behind. I even think it's because John himself feels left behind, but that's my pet theory about him and his family and whatever. He leaves no one behind because of all the disaster, not in spite of it. It's not an act of optimism, or bravery, it's an act of desperation.
So refusing to say goodbye on the pier is John's version of no man left behind in this case. I don't think he's doing it out of optimism, in other words. I think it's his way of saying, even though this is terrible, and it's going to end horribly, and that's what I really think, I'm not going to say goodbye because that's leaving you behind, that's saying it's over, and I never do that.
Um. This was a lot clearer in my head. :)
Okay, well, I started this hours ago and have since gone to both the drugstore and the coffee shop. Huh.
I also love how in an episode all about Rodney I managed to talk non-stop about JOHN. Sheesh.
Oh, and one thing about Jeannie. When she was excusing herself from Rodney, and she called him sweetie and got up, I thought, "Wow, that's motherhood. She's definitely a mom." It was about Rodney, not about her. I just love that.