Plato 2: Opposites Generating Opposites

[koganbot]

dubdobdee asked on yesterday's thread:

isn't the "form of largeness" another way of saying "the idea of size"*

*ie there wouldn't be a separate "form of largeness" and "form of smallness" -- "largeness" is (in this particular context) a synonym for size or scale?

No. Unless I'm misunderstanding, Plato is saying that there is a separate form of largeness

Comments

[dubdobdee]

in formal logic, he appears to be arguing very extended arcs of "if a then b; but not b, so not a"; where "not b" itself often derives from a contradiction

(this is a guess a bit, based on how far i've got through phaedo myself, and what i know;s coming, thx to you yesterday; but also what i know other people -- inc.the straussians -- have suggested about the dialogic or dialectical form; that a lot of socractic declaration is in fact about getting people to think through proposals to contradictory conclusions; to get them NOT to assent to statements as blithely and unthinkingly as they do... )

this is genuinely a weird coincidence, that i'd turned to plato this last week: i'm also rereading i.f.stone's "the trial of socrates", where he basically attempts to show that socrates was tried for trying to undermine belief in democracy itself -- but i got to all these bcz i was reading derrida's "politics of friendship" which vick gave me as a present a couple of years ago and i'd put on one side for an age, and a lot of it's about nietzsche's critique of socrates!!

if you're auditing do you get to ask questions and present opinions?

[dubdobdee]

actually come to think of it, stone is basically arguing that the athenians put socrates to death for promulgating straussianism avant le lettre (i read the stone years ago, and am going by memory largely)

just reached the bit where his pupils say "who will charm us against the bogeyman when you're gone, boss?" and S replies: "the world is full of charmers, kids -- even outside athens" <--- this might the source of the "noble lie" thesis, as everyone is chuckling and winking at this point: viz (acc.strauss) at this point they're saying to each other "let the rubes believe in an afterlife, we higher thinkers are made of sterner stuff"

[koganbot]

I don't know. I'm not yet finding any "noble lie" in Plato. Socrates was willing to go around engaging in his teaching/questioning with anyone who wanted it, and even a lot of people who didn't. For free. (I've yet to discern his source of income. He said he lived in poverty rather than accept money for what he did.) This is why there were all these people who felt insulted by him and all those youths he was accused of corrupting.