We're famous for not having talents, though

[koganbot]

Here's HyunA displaying her Pikachu voice (segment begins 26 seconds in), anticipating how a year later she tells Psy he's just her style. But what's striking me now about the clip is Jihyun saying, right at the start, "We're famous for not having talents." I can't tell if this is just a quick quip, a "talent" merely meaning a special side

Comments

[koganbot]

Thanks. This is useful info and makes sense, though it doesn't necessarily support my attempt to find reasons to gallantly defend 4minute as I imagine them soldiering on in the face of a contemptuous world (a world that is rewarding them very handsomely; at least a part of the world is).

I nonetheless would assume that "we are famous for not having talents" resonates with all the times that they or other idol girls get trashed as talentless, as compromised, unless and until they've demonstrated respectable chops in some respectable endeavor (even if in this instance what's being referred to is comic mimicking, which isn't part of the respectability convo).

An idol girl being awesome or charismatic onstage and a lovable relatable dork offstage makes promotional/psychological sense, her getting to be a superior talent and a charismatic object of attention while somehow not claiming superiority over us as a human lovable being (even while having a talent for acting lovable). I haven't had time to watch many variety/reality shows. But I wouldn't be surprised if HyunA turns out to be something special (rather than just par for the course) as someone who can be the lovable ditz and dork while being able to effortlessly generate a sense of command when called upon. It sounds correct that the antis aren't following the reality-show HyunA, just the onstage super sex bomb. Where they might find dissonance is HyunA's willingness to demonstrate both pop aegyo and hip-hop swagger. One reason she seems coherent to me (not that she would be worse if she didn't), is that the aegyo itself doesn't feel ingratiating so much as an adventure - as sexiness and silliness on the rampage and try to stop me. She really looks like she's having fun as a star,* which is why I've belatedly come to appreciate her dancing (which is about postures way more than about skills).

Have any performers in Korea ever succeeded artistically or commercially when they've gone for a haughtiness or aloofness that they refuse to turn off? Have performers succeeded by challenging audiences? I'm not just thinking of Iggy Pop types (in the Stooges, Iggy would literally dive into the audience and goad people to assault him), but of Miles Davis turning his back on the audience. I'm kinda hoping that Jiyeon and Hwayoung have some of this in their arsenal.

The "follow me" meme contains a kernel of such a challenge, even if the challenge is curtailed. (I basically think such challenges don't work anymore in Anglo-American entertainment, are no longer credible - goth seems silly to me - but challenge was an effective part of my rock-fan youth. For all I know, Grace Slick was a lovable, relatable drunk dork offstage, not much actual command over her life or tongue, far too genuine; but on camera she was a living, awesome threat, and I was enthralled.)

*I recall reading that she was pulled from the Wonder Girls for health issues, so for possibly being too weak. Think it's great that we now seem to be seeing from her unfettered joy in stardom.

[askbask]

Depends how strict you want to get I guess. SNSD's Jessica is known for being an 'ice princess', aloof and arrogant. That has earned her antis, but also lots of commercial interest. Of course she's not actually arrogant in public, she's nice and friendly and pleasant in many settings, but may talk a bit less, smile a bit less than your average idol. Her sister Krystal in f(x) has gotten a lot of flack for being arrogant, like several actual articles with quotes from insiders saying she acted like a diva on the set of some commercial or photoshoot, or that she was rude on a tv show, but at the same time the sisters are more often pitched as being 'cold girls' in a chic cool way.

Other idols have a similar reputation or image. 2PM started out with defiance of the rules and brattiness as their 'concept', but after the issues with Nickhun leaving they toned that down. Anyway that was different, more of a game.

Of course if this translated into public acts of defiance against their fans I'm sure their status as idols would be in danger.

(Interview with the Jungs: http://soshified.com/2012/06/marie-claire-magazine-interviews-jessica-and-fxs-krystal

Jessica: Because I’m the type who expresses my opinions honestly, my first impression seems to be taken sharply. I’ve caused misunderstandings a lot, but I don’t try to change myself because of that. Isn’t being honest better than being fake? I just think they’ll get around to understanding my honesty some day.
Krystal: Guys don’t really like me. Guys like girls that are kind and innocent. I used to be innocent (laughs). Now I’m not. Plus, it’s not something I want. )

[koganbot]

"They remind me of the cheerful girls with strong egos in Jane Austen's novels."

[askbask]

The author does seem slightly insane.

[koganbot]

Well, the translation wasn't very competent, though I don't know if that's to blame for the sudden, total shifts in topic, midparagraph. Did you look at the Korean original?

[arbitrary_greay]

Actually, I'd say that "we are famous for not having talents" could possibly be a point of pride, in that there are always people bemoaning how idol groups often can get away with little to no performance talent or releasing bad music because they're funny in variety. That 4minute is famous for not doing imitations implies that they don't have to stoop to that level, that they can stand on their performance talent and good music alone, being "more legitimate" artists. Some people praise 2NE1 for being notoriously awkward on variety, (and thus rarely doing variety appearances) taking it as evidence that they are more sincere and less fake than their peers, who play the "image first, music not so important" game.

There are certainly people who dislike Hyuna's brand of erotic cuteness, usually those who associate cuteness with youth, and thus find erotic-cute to be a wrongful sexualisation of the underage. And I do feel like there is a little bit of that in general backlash against Hyuna's sexiness, due to her babyface. (rivals Selena Gomez's) There's also general outcry against sexualisation of the young because she is the youngest in 4minute. (Conspiracy gossip was that she was a little too spicy for the Wonder Girls.)
These are more an extension of the debate on aegyo, however, and usually dorky behavior is not included under the conduct frowned upon. As askbask pointed out with his links, "dorky" might well be high praise for any idol.

Have performers succeeded by challenging audiences?
I don't have enough experience with the rest of Kpop to say. From this, it seems that anyone who achieves mainstream success does play the game at least a little, especially for squeaky-clean commercial endorsements.

This is further complicated in that fans' devotion becomes so complete that, arguably, challenging actions that are accepted by their fans cease to be challenging, because the fans accept both challenging and not in exactly the same way. They paint over all actions with blind adoration, and revel in that adoration, not thinking on any challenges that might be present. askbask mentioned the Jung sisters' aloof images, and some of their fans find it a point of appeal, but not in the sense of masochism. Rather, it's affection from seeing the contrast to when they do let their guards down, taking satisfaction in knowing that they have called their idols' bluff, knowing that they can actually be just as dorky as the rest at times. Like falling for the bad boy because you think that you've seen through their tough and gruff exterior to their mushy inside.
Instances where the challenge is actually acknowledged have always become scandals where the artist is painted with the "diva" brush, seen as ungrateful to their fans, and well, Kim Kwang Soo attempted to do that to Hwayoung because the consequences of the "diva" image are so harsh in Kpop. So idols are always, always, always sure to reassure the fans that any challenging actions are merely part of their concepts, fierce or sexy or what have you. Thus fans are free to dismiss any challenging behavior not as an inherent personality trait of the idol, but as more evidence of their skill in being able to portray these wide varieties of concepts. G-Dragon smashing a guitar on stage loses any incendiary meaning, especially when he frames it as purely performance later. Fans: "Awww, he was embarrassed! How cute!"