E.via (artist of the year, 2010)

[koganbot]

For the many people* who ask me "Why Korea?" my answer is love. Yes, and there are plenty of other answers too, one being that people who know more than I do come to my lj and talk to me about K-pop, providing sociability and mindwork, and another being that K-pop is creating a hip-hop, r&b, dance-pop amalgam far better than the Billboard Hot 100's

Comments

[koganbot]

Well, this is where my ignorance of the Korean biz is a big drawback, but is being a trainee the only route to success in Korean pop? And here I'm using "pop" in the sense of "popular," rather than as a specific poppy-sounding subset of popular music that's called "pop." But E.via uses elements of the latter also, quite obviously. The fundamental point I'm making, though, is that even if she's the only potentially popular young woman who's coming up neither as a ballad singer or as a trainee, what sets her apart is that what she's doing is different; rather than her being someone who's doing what the others are doing but merely putting her training and marketing in her own hands rather than waiting on the majors.

She tends to get classified as "rap," and I'm assuming (perhaps incorrectly) that commercial success as a rap solo artist doesn't follow the trainee route. (As opposed to being a rapper in a girl group or boyband.)

Btw, to switch the subject to IU, my impression of IU - and this is an impression I've gotten from you - is that though she's on a major she's also taken her fate into her own hands, maybe even with the encouragement of her label. That is, she's such a broad talent that the label isn't set on locking her into a particular image or style, since they're getting a better payoff by trying a whole lot of the things she wants to try. I'm saying all this in ignorance of the actual situation: I'm just assuming that her live-girl-with-guitar efforts a couple of years ago superseded her actual record releases and videos at that time in establishing who she is and what she's capable of.

[koganbot]

neither as a ballad singer nor as a trainee

[askbask]

IU's Loen entertainment distribute for JYP and others but I don't think they operate the same kind of studio model. She's making a lot of money for her label and for herself (now with the writing credits) and I'm intrigued by the idea of her as a figure of power in k-pop.

I don't know that trainee-ing for a studio is the only route to non-balladry stardom*, but it's close. This is one of the things I've bemoaned about k-pop - the lack of different artist types among the real big commercial stars. Not about the sounds and the music and the ideas, but where they come from.

I've brought up some k-pop songwriter types lately and my excitement for their rise is not so much a longing for acoustic jamming as seeing different narratives leading to stardom. Many of them are a lot more popular than e.via. http://www.gaonchart.co.kr/main/section/search/list.gaon?Search_str=%EC%9D%B4%EB%B9%84%EC%95%84&x=0&y=0

* Indie band 10cm's "Americano" is one of the bigger hits of 2011, so other kinds of success stories exist, but I'm talking pop STAR, doing the pop tv shows, getting that fan base.

[koganbot]

What about rap? Does any of that break big? (I was going to write "Break onto the charts" but I don't trust the Korean charts.) If it does, where does it come from (other than GD&TOP, since I know where they come from)?

[askbask]

All things considered I don't see anything untrustworthy about Gaon's sales reporting. Their numbers fit with information we've got from other sources. Before they entered the scene getting reliable info was a crapshoot.

I don't know much about the labels and organization of the hip-hop scene. I just listen to the things that show up on my subscriptions, mainly. Many female mcs who never get on music shows like e.via does.

Supreme Team are pretty huge, regular supply of hits. MC Mong has some of the biggest #1 streaks of the past few years, his is more novelty, fun time rap (see "Circus").

There's LeeSSang, whose member Gary featured on Lee Hyori's 'Swing'.

Tiger JK's African American/Korean wife Tasha is one of the bigger female names http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgK9TzVq7b4#t=06m12s

I guess this does show that as hip-hop artist you have other ways to the top. Don't think any of these started out as idol trainees, but I don't know for sure. But JYP's got san-E and YG's got PSY, both hip-hop and not idols. PSY started out elsewhere but found a home and a huge hit with YG

We've talked about DJ DOC. They created a bit of a row in the midst of the "I'm this kind of person" promotion for attacking the tv shows only showcasing pop idols.

[askbask]

Kinda funny how all the other female rappers with Tasha on stage are girl group members.

[koganbot]

From Wikip:

Physical album sales from LOEN Entertainment, SM Entertainment, Sony Music Korea, Warner Music Korea, Universal Music, and Mnet Media are synthesized in the album chart. All music sales except physical sales is estimated by digital chart. The digital chart is the combination of the mobile chart and the online chart. The mobile chart estimates the best selling ringtones, while the online chart calculates downloads and bgm sales as well as streaming services. All charts are offered monthly and weekly. [emphasis added]

It's that first sentence that jumped out at me as making the chart particularly untrustworthy. I can't tell if the companies are doing the sales reporting themselves; but otherwise, why list them like that? Not that physical sales are dominant anymore, or albums, but how can you be trustworthy if you're getting your figures from the labels, not the retailers. Or course, retailers can accept payola and lie too, which is why Billboard started using Soundscan in the U.S. And any system can be gamed, and it's the big guys who are likely to win the gaming. My guess is that in several years Gaon will be closer to genuinely reliable. Of course illegal downloads totally skew the picture anyway, and that's not going to change; though maybe there's a reasonable way to estimate which genres get illegally downloaded more than others, and which sales patterns have stronger correlations to illegal downloads than others do. But it'll never really be scientifically possible to gauge a song's popularity with complete numerical accuracy.

Chuck Eddy

[koganbot]

can't tell if the companies are doing the sales reporting themselves; but otherwise, why list them like that?

From global pieces that I edited when I worked at Billboard, I got the idea that that's how music sales are tallied in many, many countries around the world -- So, where physical product is concerned, what you're really seeing are shipments, not actual sales, and you're trusting that the shipment numbers record companies give you are reliable, when obviously the labels would have good reasons to artificially boost them. I don't know off hand whether Korea, specifically, adds up numbers that way, but I wouldn't be surprised. And if they do, they are hardly alone -- SoundScan's use in the U.S. is actually the exception to the rule.

Re: Chuck Eddy

[koganbot]

Also, it looks as if they're not even asking the indie labels/distributors, though maybe they have some way of tallying those, too.

[askbask]

You're right about that- I guess I've mostly paid attention to the digital charts, since that's the only one with weekly sales figures.