During the Dream Concert held on June 7, 2008 in South Korea, a silent protest was held against Girls' Generation by various other fan groups, notably E.L.F, Cassiopeia, and Triple S.
["Girls' Generation" is, I guess, the best English translation of their name, but the group are known as SNSD internationally, SNSD being the initials of their Korean name: So Nyeo Shi Dae/So Nyuh Shi Dae. This according to Wiki, anyway.]
Do you know if there's a demographic or social difference between the audience for Wonder Girls and the audience for SNSD? In my previous comment, where I was comparing Destiny's Child and *NSync, the former in 1999 were getting played on the "rhythmic" ("hip-hop and r&b") stations and the "urban" stations with some Top 40 play while the latter were mainly Top 40 with (mainly white) teenybopper girls as their primary audience though would cross a bit to "rhythmic" (and they had r&b sources too, I'd say Bell Biv Devoe and Boyz II Men being more crucial models than New Kids were). Despite Destiny's Child still being teens themselves, they were getting more the general young men and women market, including teens and maybe some tweens but not preponderantly so - leaning black but of course plenty of whites, Hispanics, etc. also listened to hip-hop and r&b, and TLC had crossed huge to teenpop already, which DC did in the following year. I have no idea how the Korean market divides itself. I'd expect there to be some class and gender divisions among the audiences for pop and rock and hip-hop/r&b, though I have no idea how those divisions would compare to North American.
Not really sure about the demographics and much less about the class divisions. Here is an article in a fansite with a couple of news about a concert where 14 people get injuried running to the front line or fighting with other fan clubs for the seats. There are also videos of the “boycott” on YouTube (1, 2). So probably, in this case, females between 12-16. But I suppose this is a kind of behaviour that is accepted by society and that loses its meaning when you grow. But probably the public is more a mixed bag, with the girls acting on TV series, having radio shows, appearing on ads or getting spreads on fashion magazines, so there should be more mix between boys and girls on their teens, kids that love the looks, young people that still have care or like the fashion style or with whom they are dating, mothers and fathers, and probably being cute as a pop star works in the same way as in Japan, as a safe form of being different without getting in trouble with the community (and also the “adult” pop I remember hearing on TV channels via satellite were so heartfelt, dull and boring that this groups seems kinda “edgy” (also I don’t remember seeing nothing that I will call disturbing but maybe that depends in the available offer)). But probably the same audience for both groups.
The dispute began when DBSK's fanclub Casseopia, SS501's fanclub Triple S and SuJu's fanclub ELF (CaTriEl) demonstrated a 10 minutes of silence during the performance of SNSD as a retaliation against the mostly male based SNSD fanclub.
It was also found that a male-based fanclub of Wonder Girls (Wonderful) indirectly supported the demonstration which lead to a battle between the fanclub cultures. Also, using the variation of "otaku", SNSD fans are being referred as "SoTaku" and Wonder Girls fans as "WonTaku" by its rival fanclubs.
K-pop has the most insane and deeply frightening fanclub culture ever, and I say this as someone with a full-blown otaku background. It's as much crazy hate of "rivals" as crazy love of the idols in question, said rivalries seem as random in provenance (from an outside perspective at least) as hip-hop beefs, and are sometimes as damaging - people have poisoned the water bottles of and thrown acid at pop stars they dislike.
Confession: I had to look up "otaku" on Wiki. (I also have little knowledge of anime, though my local library has a surprisingly large collection. Was your "otaku" anime related? Music related?)(Of course, "fan" is derived from "fanatic.")
Do you know if there's a class component or an ethnic component to the Korean fanclubs? Would the Korean equivalent of a preppy girl join one (if the social map in Korea even contains equivalents to "preps" and "skaters" and the like)? (Actually, I don't even know the current high-school terminology in North America.)
Re: Gender wars?petroniaJune 10 2009, 04:14:45 UTC
(wrote a response earlier but browser died)
Anime/manga fandom, which has a musical component Western counterparts (Marvel comics, Star Trek etc.) don't have - soundtracks, "in character" albums by voice actresses, J-pop/J-rock tie-ins. Fair amount of overlap with Asian pop fandom in general. IME kids heavily into the scene listen to little else.
Korea's pretty homogeneous ethnically. There's class consciousness but I don't know how it plays out w/r/t youth culture, other than the assumption that "good kids" ought to be studying or playing classical violin or whatever. It's also a highly wired society. A lot of K-popstars are diaspora, so Korean forays into hip-hop/R&B have been (from a North American taste perspective) more convincing for longer than similar efforts by Japan/Taiwan/China; there was a lag of maybe five years where Korean bboys could rap, Japanese couldn't, and it hadn't even occurred to Chinese to try.
I don't know much about NAmerican hip-hop culture either. XD; I think most K-pop feuds don't (intentionally, anyway) start at the artist level - they start at the fan level, or given the wacko incestuousness of the Asian music industry, at the label level.
Re: Gender wars?petroniaJune 10 2009, 04:58:53 UTC
Caveat that I haven't followed K-pop for a while; my best period is circa Shinhwa, Baby V.O.X. (one of my favorite girlbands of all time despite them not being able to sing), Lee Jung Hyun, and of course BoA.
Re: Gender wars?koganbotJune 10 2009, 06:14:39 UTC
Yes. Connecticut, my father's 90th birthday, will see my parents and my brother and sister-in-law and my two nephews and assorted friends and relations.
Also I don't know a whole lot about North American hip-hop culture(s). Did hip-hop beefs make it down to the fan level? That is, Biggie and 2Pac had their feud, but did fans of Biggie and 2Pac also feud? I can imagine (or not even imagine, one can read it) fans of "conscious rap" hating on fans of snap, but I don't hear about fans of, say, Flo Rida hating on fans of Soulja Boy Tell 'Em (though perhaps they do). And also I have no idea if gang conflicts filter through to rappers, though this may well be the case. The only thing I know about it is Snoop Dogg spelling out C.R.I.P. in the "P.I.M.P." remix.
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Controversy
During the Dream Concert held on June 7, 2008 in South Korea, a silent protest was held against Girls' Generation by various other fan groups, notably E.L.F, Cassiopeia, and Triple S.
["Girls' Generation" is, I guess, the best English translation of their name, but the group are known as SNSD internationally, SNSD being the initials of their Korean name: So Nyeo Shi Dae/So Nyuh Shi Dae. This according to Wiki, anyway.]
Do you know if there's a demographic or social difference between the audience for Wonder Girls and the audience for SNSD? In my previous comment, where I was comparing Destiny's Child and *NSync, the former in 1999 were getting played on the "rhythmic" ("hip-hop and r&b") stations and the "urban" stations with some Top 40 play while the latter were mainly Top 40 with (mainly white) teenybopper girls as their primary audience though would cross a bit to "rhythmic" (and they had r&b sources too, I'd say Bell Biv Devoe and Boyz II Men being more crucial models than New Kids were). Despite Destiny's Child still being teens themselves, they were getting more the general young men and women market, including teens and maybe some tweens but not preponderantly so - leaning black but of course plenty of whites, Hispanics, etc. also listened to hip-hop and r&b, and TLC had crossed huge to teenpop already, which DC did in the following year. I have no idea how the Korean market divides itself. I'd expect there to be some class and gender divisions among the audiences for pop and rock and hip-hop/r&b, though I have no idea how those divisions would compare to North American.
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It was also found that a male-based fanclub of Wonder Girls (Wonderful) indirectly supported the demonstration which lead to a battle between the fanclub cultures. Also, using the variation of "otaku", SNSD fans are being referred as "SoTaku" and Wonder Girls fans as "WonTaku" by its rival fanclubs.
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: )
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Do you know if there's a class component or an ethnic component to the Korean fanclubs? Would the Korean equivalent of a preppy girl join one (if the social map in Korea even contains equivalents to "preps" and "skaters" and the like)? (Actually, I don't even know the current high-school terminology in North America.)
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Anime/manga fandom, which has a musical component Western counterparts (Marvel comics, Star Trek etc.) don't have - soundtracks, "in character" albums by voice actresses, J-pop/J-rock tie-ins. Fair amount of overlap with Asian pop fandom in general. IME kids heavily into the scene listen to little else.
Korea's pretty homogeneous ethnically. There's class consciousness but I don't know how it plays out w/r/t youth culture, other than the assumption that "good kids" ought to be studying or playing classical violin or whatever. It's also a highly wired society. A lot of K-popstars are diaspora, so Korean forays into hip-hop/R&B have been (from a North American taste perspective) more convincing for longer than similar efforts by Japan/Taiwan/China; there was a lag of maybe five years where Korean bboys could rap, Japanese couldn't, and it hadn't even occurred to Chinese to try.
I don't know much about NAmerican hip-hop culture either. XD; I think most K-pop feuds don't (intentionally, anyway) start at the artist level - they start at the fan level, or given the wacko incestuousness of the Asian music industry, at the label level.
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(Since I don't speak a word of Korean we're pretty much on the same footing methinks.)
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Shinhwa "Wild Eyes"
Lee Jung Hyun "Michyeo"
BoA "Amazing Kiss"
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