Comments | kmd: IBARW: feminism, feelings and privilege

kmd

IBARW: feminism, feelings and privilege

Aug 02, 2009 15:25

Thanks to the work of women of color online, I finally get the dynamic of white women defending our privilege via (supposedly) feminist values around validating feelings.
( long ibarw post is long )

ibarw, feminism, anti-racism, feminisms

Comments 30

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kmd August 3 2009, 11:55:00 UTC

Thanks for reading, and it was my pleasure.

Also, I have been wanting to say forever: icon love!

kate_nepveu August 3 2009, 18:01:47 UTC

Thanks for posting this; I thought it was a clear explanation of how this variant of the tone argument comes up.

kmd August 3 2009, 19:00:39 UTC

Huh. Interesting. I never thought of this as a variant on the tone argument.

kate_nepveu August 3 2009, 20:13:43 UTC

No? They seem flip sides of the same coin to me.

kmd August 3 2009, 20:29:44 UTC

I see the connection, for sure.

ETA: this is a rich vein of connection to ponder. Thanks.

Thread 5

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kmd August 3 2009, 20:53:50 UTC

You're welcome, and thanks for reading it.

I woke up this morning cracking up because I thought: um, ok. James Baldwin said in 7 words what it took you 3 screens:

"It's easier to cry than to change."

ETA: Here's the real quote:

"People can cry much easier than they can change, a rule of psychology people like me picked up as kids on the street."

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kmd August 3 2009, 21:42:48 UTC

"white women as guardians of civilization"

YES.

Which is the direction in which kate_nepveu's observation about this being a variant on the tone argument has sent me.

And in that direction there is definitely intersectionality to ponder here. When women hurt white men's feelings -- hell, when we simply fail to take care of their feelings like we're supposed to (an expectation white men and women place on men and women of color x 100), white men don't react with tears and hurt feefees. IME they react like rabid dogs, tearing and ripping and punching everything in sight. We go from sugartit to castrating bitches in a red hot second. And people of color go from interesting cool omg new friends! to orcs in a flat second.

Somehow the viciousness of the attacks from the privileged ones are comparable to that one original critique, the one that hurt someone's feelings.

Is it because defending civilization is hard, regrettable work? Like "why do you make me hurt you?" kind of thing? Again, kate_nepveu's observation about this being but one part of the tone ( ... )

Thread 15

speaking of white women as defenders of civilization... delux_vivens August 4 2009, 01:18:21 UTC

fyi.

Re: speaking of white women as defenders of civilization... kmd August 4 2009, 01:49:45 UTC

White Australians emphasized biological absorption, in which indigenous identity would be dissolved through interracial relationships, while white Americans promoted cultural assimilation, attempting to alter the lifestyles of indigenous people rather than their physical appearance.

In one, white women are purifying the world through our vajayjays, in the other, we're doing it through our God-given duty to keep conversations free of rage and frustration. Check.

AH. Right. Necessary forerunners to the white ppl reaction to white parents of brown foster kids. "Oh, good for you."

[must. control. fist. of. death.]

aquaeri August 19 2009, 03:35:48 UTC

I thought this was a really good piece, very thought-provoking in all kinds of ways and the comments are just as good again ( ... )

kmd August 19 2009, 13:02:59 UTC

the comments are just as good again.

Agreed ^100.

I haven't had so much of the rage thing, because I hang out in science research academia sort of circles.

The young man who grabbed me by the throat and slammed me against the wall in college because I wouldn't be quiet in the hall when he wanted quiet in the hall near his dorm room was a Rhodes scholar. So, I hadn't hurt his feelings but I sure wouldn't say that academia moots the possibility for vicious rage.

I think my different background (culturally Danish in Denmark) is the most likely reason why I was a bit shocked to discover that (white) women cry to get a big strong (white) man come save them. It wouldn't occur to me to do that.

Really? So there is no meme of chivalry or fainting femininity in Danish culture? Interesting! Can you say some more about how sexism plays itself out in your cultural context?

the thing about the centrality of feelings is interlocking in interesting ways with the centrality of intention in RaceFails

Oh heck yes.

aquaeri August 20 2009, 03:33:23 UTC

The young man who grabbed me by the throat and slammed me against the wall in college because I wouldn't be quiet in the hall when he wanted quiet in the hall near his dorm room was a Rhodes scholar. So, I hadn't hurt his feelings but I sure wouldn't say that academia moots the possibility for vicious rage.

I meant that as I've encountered it, the 'social rule' in academia is to express yourself via "reason", not that physical manifestations don't occur. (Both James Watson's comments about Africans "not being as intelligent" and Larry Summer's comments about why women aren't leaders in science are public examples of the kind of thing I'm thinking of.)

And as for Rhodes scholars, Australia had a Prime Minister who'd been a Rhodes scholar, and during it had set a record for beer drinking that was in the Guinness Book of Records.

So there is no meme of chivalry or fainting femininity in Danish culture? Interesting! Can you say some more about how sexism plays itself out in your cultural context?Oh, there's certainly the meme of ( ... )

kmd August 20 2009, 11:47:42 UTC

"Our women are too strong for that nonsense" is an oft-repeated meme in my family/community of origin, too. But IMO that's just part of the necessary rhetorical framing to make the dynamic we've been discussing and describing here work. It's part of the white noise that covers up what really happens ( ... )