Comments | klytaimnestra: self-convicting rapists

klytaimnestra

self-convicting rapists

Nov 16, 2009 11:21

Here's a fascinating blog entry, 'Meet the Predators", from "yesmeansyesblog.wordpress.com", which summarizes two recent surveys on men and rape:

yesmeansyesblog.wordpress.com/2009/11/12/meet-the-predators/

Illuminating article, which reveals that

men are much more likely to self-convict as rapists if the questionnaire doesn't use the word "rape"; ( Read more... )

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raphaela November 16 2009, 23:30:01 UTC

My recent experience at work leads me to strongly believe my aggressor is one of these men.

I can't help but wonder klytaimnestra November 17 2009, 07:21:48 UTC

I was thinking of you as I read the article. From your account of the Hallowe'en party, he was trying with increasing desperation to make you NOTICE him and be upset. First he stands beside you on one side, cup displayed aggressively right by your cheek; then he stands beside you on the otherside when you turn your head away; then he sits right in front of you, legs splayed in classic look-at-my-dick position, cup bulging at you; and when you don't react, and don't react, and don't react, he grinds himself against your ass. And finally you tell him to stop it, so his reaction - like any pathetic little bully - is to think "hey! finally got her on the run!" and do it more ( ... )

Re: I can't help but wonder raphaela November 17 2009, 17:10:37 UTC

What you've put so succinctly is why I have been having such problems with the issue. What he did physically may not have been that big a deal (didn't penetrate, didn't bruise or cut, didn't "hurt") but the intense, overwhelming feelings I was feeling, and the anger and crazy drive for power he was on, coupled with this being done in a group that thought it was funny and encouraged him was traumatizing to me. I keep dreaming about gang related things.

And part of me keeps thinking, "You could have avoided all of this if you'd just played along at the beginning, given him the reaction he wanted, and gone on about your business. If you hadn't had to be so stridently uptight about it..." Though, I know I wasn't being uptight, I was being decent.

It's sad when just being decent feels like being a Victorian prude.

Re: I can't help but wonder klytaimnestra November 17 2009, 20:52:12 UTC

You were correctly processing his actual motives. He wasn't trying to be funny. He was trying for dominance. And all those people laughing were used to his behaviour; or scared of him; or uneasily aware that there was something wrong and laughing because they were trying to "make nice", and make it not be so bad. Like, if your friend is drinking too much, if you ahve a beer too it "normalizes" his behaviour, so he doesn't look like such a lush. So they're laughing and encouraging him , the ones who weren't absolute creeps of course, because his behaviour was creeping them out and they were trying to make it 'normal' by laughing and pretending it WAS normal.

Makes me sick. Makes me sorry for all of the people still stuck in that company.

Re: I can&#39;t help but wonder raphaela November 17 2009, 21:00:56 UTC

Again! That's exactly what I've been trying to verbalize about the normalization, but couldn't. Thank you. Having words for it makes it possible to defeat.

normalizing klytaimnestra November 17 2009, 21:29:30 UTC

When you described it, I had a memory flash of a boyfriend I had once, long ago, with a serious drinking problem which I hadn't entirely grasped that he had (at that point everyone I knew drank a fair amount, but in his case it was different). But I remember one afternoon we were up at his cottage with my sister and a friend of his from work, and we were all set to go back to the city and have dinner, had agreed that was what we were doing and were all packed up and everything, and he suddenly (and with a mutinous expression on his face) sat down and had a beer. And I didn't even want a beer. But I opened one and sat down with him, to make it normal that he had suddenly derailed everyone's plans. So he wouldn't be embarrassed in front of his friend, and I wouldn't be embarrassed in front of my sister (by having such a lame-ass control-freak boyfriend ( ... )

Re: normalizing raphaela November 17 2009, 22:08:09 UTC

Thank you, Professor =) I really mean that. Because I have been trying to put a face or name on this for three weeks now, and couldn't. And likely couldn't because it's still very shocking when I think about it. You've really helped me out of a bind, and I can't thank you enough.

Re: normalizing klytaimnestra November 18 2009, 01:29:37 UTC

Glad I could help! That afternoon with my alcoholic boyfriend was a very enlightening moment, for me. Not the normalization - I've been trained in 'normalizing' behaviour because my father's an alcoholic, worse when I was growing up, and so I spent a lot of time pretending stuff was 'normal' when it bloody wasn't - but actually realizing what I was doing, for the first time. But I think lots of us are trained to 'normalize' creepy, scary or weird behaviour - certainly all your former co-workers were. Likely you have been too ( ... )

one last thing klytaimnestra November 18 2009, 01:32:11 UTC

Isn't it interesting that we do have that instinct? Unless we stifle it entirely, which of course we are trained to do. But if ten people do exactly the same thing, we still KNOW which one of them is "off" somehow. We usually try to be polite and swallow this and pretend we don't know it; but we do.

And now I know where I first found this. You might want to read Gavin de Becker's book "The Gift of Fear". Actually everyone should read it, particularly women. It's all about honouring your intuition; you've got it for a reason.

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