SGA 3x05 - Progeny
So I was really, really looking forward to this episode (despite the many, many, many similarities it shares with previous SG-1 episode/story arcs in certain spots) mainly because Carl Binder has written or been responsible for quite a few of my favorite episodes ('Before I Sleep', 'Gifts from Pegasus' and 'Inferno' among others). He’s usually pretty good at consistent characterization and team dynamics. He even manages to add Weir to the mix as more than the person who hands Team Sheppard their marching orders for the episode and then stands around looking suitably concerned.
All that aside, I liked this episode.
Like, really, really liked it. Yes, I know it seems like all I do is complain about the episode in my review, but in the end? It was a good episode for one of the Stargates with a ton, a ton of insight into John and the way he sees the others on his team and the people he views as friends. And I love that.
Plus? There was beautiful character interaction and awesome Sheppard-McKay bickering/bantering going on. The two of them are totally BFF. Totally. ♥
(I tend to comment as I watch the show, so there's a lot of me pausing the episode to write out long, long comments which usually ends up being completely embarrassing for me later on when the show addresses the complaints/problems/points I've just spent five minutes bitching about.)
I...shouldn't they have known Elizabeth was coming before the needing to ask? I mean...wtf? (Or was that just a Rodney thing?)
Oh, impressive. I like how they show the...Atlantis-based city as the center of the entire city (omg, my words...they are gone) the Asurans live in, since it provides scale. (We've been told that Atlantis is the size of Manhattan, and then they pan out to show us the rest of the Asuran city...nice.)
What? Just because they say they built the city (on rock and roll, because apparently I cannot resist a bad joke) and know how to make a ZPM doesn't automatically mean they're Ancients. I mean...yes, I can see how it would be easy to make that assumption, but...
I'm not even faulting Teyla on being the one to say it first, because she's probably been hoping to either meet the Ancients themselves or people (like, say an expedition from Earth) that could help in the fight against the Wraith. Hell, I'd be willing to take a few things on faith if I were in her position.
Still.
They shouldn’t be willing to take these people on blind faith or surface appearances because they've been burned (badly) before.
I'd wonder at a people who appear to be that advanced and yet have decided not to fight the Wraith. Niam himself says that 'the Wraith do not concern us', which I would take to mean that the Asurans have embraced the (Ascended) Ancient's (and the Nox, Tollan, and pretty much every advanced race - that isn't actively evil - except for the Asgard, who are careful about what tech and how much they share with us, which I actually kind of like? I mean, it's smart of them to do that) policy of non-interference and wouldn't be interested in sharing their technology. (In which case, can you imagine how amazingly frustrated and pissed Rodney would be?)
And, taking a step back and pretending that the Asurans actually were Ancients that hadn't Ascended? I'd wonder if the reason they aren't fighting the Wraith was due to them being beaten 10,000 years ago and having to retreat to Earth. Making the ones that stayed behind or came back to build the new city leery of continuing or starting a new war against the Wraith because they'd either flat-out assume they'd lose again or just wouldn't want to take the risk at all. (A line of reasoning I completely understand, even if I can't completely agree with it in 'big picture' kind of way. Eventually the Wraith would run out of smaller game and come after the Asurans, which would put them back in the fight whether they liked it or not and I don't doubt that there would be yet another siege.) All of which would still make them dodgy allies at best because they'd have even more reason not to want anything to do with Atlantis and their fight against the Wraith.
But. The Asurans aren't Ancients, Ascended or not, so that's pretty much unimportant in the larger scheme of things.
Oh, god, Shallow moment of me being in love with David Ogden Stiers' voice. (Deeply, madly in love.)
The spartan decor creeps me out. Very FUTURE NOW, but creepy. There is no life to it.
Also, is it a major social faux pas to ask the Asurans if they're actually Ancients? I would assume it would be a greater one to just assume they were, than to question them on it. Mistaken identity and all. (And also? It's like ASKING them to take advantage of you to let them think you think they're Ancients. *insert 'YOU FOOLS!' here* I mean, isn't that basically how the Goa'uld and Ori operate (only with more spilling of blood and killing of innocents)? It's also how gate teams get in trouble off-world, if I recall correctly.)
I am liking that John is so clearly suspicious of the Asurans. Or at least not comfortable with them. I just...someone needs to be, you know?
Oh, Ronon. Oh, Rodney. (I love that Rodney's looking at Ronon when Ronon says that 'where we're from we take care of our family' and that Ronon sort of turns towards Rodney. :D)
And is it me, or is Ronon totally sticking closer to Rodney than he used to?
Okay, so apparently they do plan to fight the Wraith. Please to be forgetting that whole rant thing from earlier. I'm writing this as I watch the episode.
And may I say how adorable John was with the backing up of Rodney? I just...oh, John. Such a dork.
Okay, so this? The part where our intrepid heroes voice their many, many, many suspicions regarding their hosts and the plans of their hosts without fear of being overheard? That is what I so love about television and movies and pretty much any form of fiction.
THE HEROES ARE STUPID.
And yet? Usually manage to triumph over evil anyway. *loves*
You know what would have been, oh, I don't know, smarter than asking for a ZPM? Asking how they're made. I mean, seriously. Have they honestly not heard the proverb about teaching a man to fish? ('Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.')
That's what I like so much about the way the Asgard share their technology with Earth, they don't just give it to us, they guide us in learning to develop it ourselves. Even if the process is frustrating.
They make us work for it so that we actually know what the hell we're doing with it and won't be dependent on them in the future. (Aside from a few instances like the ZPM they gave us in Siege part two, but that's different, since there was the whole IMMINENT DEATH thing.)
And by ‘us’, I mean Stargate-verse Earth, not Real World-Earth, because otherwise that would just make me sound CRAZY. :D
Weir and the others go around asking for ZPMs, and the moment, the MOMENT, they find an advanced race that not only has ZPMs but also knows how to make them, they ask for ZPMs instead of asking to learn how they're made. *facepalm*
I mean, yes. Perhaps the science is beyond them at the moment, but that was pretty much the case when SG-1 got the Naquadah generators, right? And they eventually caught up enough to understand the science behind it and build their own? So what harm can it do to at least ask to do the same with the ZPMs? At worst Oberoth says NO. At best, they get the same chance SG-1 and Earth got all those years ago with the Naquadah generators and a step in the right direction.
Also? Way to give yourself away, Weir. (Quick! Don't tell them we're from Atlantis, but be sure as hell to let the Asurans know that you depend on the ZPMs for power because they'll never figure it out! XD XD XD XD XD)
D'oh!
I...I would so like to think that that was just a clever, clever ploy of hers to make Oberoth feel sympathetic towards them, but really? No. And that might have been a bad risk to take seeing as how they seem to hold some sort of bitterness/resentment towards the Lanteans.
I...honestly? I told myself I wasn't going to be all nitpicky this time around and just enjoy the episode, but they make it so hard. They really do.
Oh, god. Seriously, STOP ASKING THEM TO BE YOUR SUGAR DADDY, IT'S EMBARRASSING.
Do they just not think that the Asurans wouldn't share their knowledge? Or is it that asking for the know-how doesn't make for good television? I'm confused.
This is why I don't think Atlantis will ever deliberately cut ties with Earth on the show - they can't fucking take care of themselves and are always going around looking for handouts instead of learning to adequately fend for themselves.
Weir's making Atlantis out to be a bunch of druggies looking for their next fix, and that's...that's actually kind of scary.
I'm STILL not seeing Weir as being this totally awesome and kickass diplomat, and that makes me sad.
And yet? No matter how frustrating I get? The Sheppard-McKay interaction makes up for all of it. :D
Oooh. I liked that.
May I say how much I love Teyla's hair this season?
Oh, god. Rodney would be the guy with the harmonica in a prison movie, wouldn't he?
LEGO GUNS! XD
Oh, wow. That escape went a little too smoothly, you know? *suspicious*
ZELENKA. :D
Oh, god, is it terrible that I'm paying more attention to the music as the Wraith DESTROY ATLANTIS? :O
And now, now we get the part I was afraid of when I read the spoilers for this episode: Niam is Fifth. Weir is Carter.
GOD, IT BURNS.
Wow. They use that 'you should trust us because we are willing to trust YOU' theme in SGA a lot, don't they? I mean, a LOT. I find that ironic, as there seems to be very little actual trust among the people of Pegasus. (The whole 'survival at whatever cost' frame of mind doesn't tend to lend itself to that where 'outsiders' are involved.)
I...didn't they read the OTHER reports regarding Fifth and Repli-Carter? I...OMG, PLEASE NO MORE, IT BURNS.
THERE IS TEAM TOUCHING.
Oh, okay. So it's more like patting on the arm as they flee for their lives, but hey. TEAM. TOUCHING.
So you know what I want to know? Why didn't they blow Niam up with a drone or throw his body into a sun or something? If they're willing to go so far as to blow up their flying city (with who knows how many Asurans on board) to protect Atlantis, why not go that extra step with Niam? Or, Niam's body since the Asurans from his planet were using him to attack Weir?
Plus. What were they expecting to happen with the planet full of Asurans? As long as they don't have their flying city they aren't a threat to you? Do you honestly want to take the chance that they don't have other, smaller, warships or space craft that could easily destroy your city, or now that they know the address for Earth, EARTH? (I'm pretty sure they'd be able to find a way to get to Earth sooner or later if they really wanted to.)
And also, has it been established that the human Replicators can't...I don't know, infect a human or other being/piece of technology in the same way the original nanovirus could? Because that would kind of be awesome if the human Replicators could do that, what with the whole strangling Weir thing and mind probing of Team Sheppard.
They could totally be held hostage, or used in other nefarious ways to gain knowledge and or access to Atlantis. But I'm thinking in terms of really bad pseudo-science, and they'd never do that on the show. :P
Overall? I liked this episode. Yes, there was bad decision making all around, but that's par for the course. Yes, I am nitpicky beyond all reason, but that too, is par for the course.
I love that in John's mind their escape plans DO go off without a hitch, and that no one gets hurt, no one gets left behind and it's all works like a well-oiled machine. I love that he wants things to go that way, and I feel bad for him because that rarely, if ever, happens in real life.
I love the way he perceives the people around him and everything, everything his little mind-probe illusion showed us about him. ♥
I love that Carl Binder is clearly on board with Gero in regards to Sheppard and McKay being best friends, because he's one of the writers I trust to give us good Sheppard-McKay interaction. ♥
I love that even if Sheppard and McKay aren't actually gay, they really, really are the bestest friends ever and would totally wear the jewelry to prove it. If, you know, that wasn't too teenage girly. XD
P.S. That scene where everyone's in the suite the Asurans put them for the first time? With Ronon slouching on the couch and Rodney sitting next to him while the others stand around talking? God, that reminded me so, so much of school/band trips so, so much and god. I cannot explain why I loved that scene so much. [/lame]
All that aside, I liked this episode.
Like, really, really liked it. Yes, I know it seems like all I do is complain about the episode in my review, but in the end? It was a good episode for one of the Stargates with a ton, a ton of insight into John and the way he sees the others on his team and the people he views as friends. And I love that.
Plus? There was beautiful character interaction and awesome Sheppard-McKay bickering/bantering going on. The two of them are totally BFF. Totally. ♥
(I tend to comment as I watch the show, so there's a lot of me pausing the episode to write out long, long comments which usually ends up being completely embarrassing for me later on when the show addresses the complaints/problems/points I've just spent five minutes bitching about.)
I...shouldn't they have known Elizabeth was coming before the needing to ask? I mean...wtf? (Or was that just a Rodney thing?)
Oh, impressive. I like how they show the...Atlantis-based city as the center of the entire city (omg, my words...they are gone) the Asurans live in, since it provides scale. (We've been told that Atlantis is the size of Manhattan, and then they pan out to show us the rest of the Asuran city...nice.)
What? Just because they say they built the city (on rock and roll, because apparently I cannot resist a bad joke) and know how to make a ZPM doesn't automatically mean they're Ancients. I mean...yes, I can see how it would be easy to make that assumption, but...
I'm not even faulting Teyla on being the one to say it first, because she's probably been hoping to either meet the Ancients themselves or people (like, say an expedition from Earth) that could help in the fight against the Wraith. Hell, I'd be willing to take a few things on faith if I were in her position.
Still.
They shouldn’t be willing to take these people on blind faith or surface appearances because they've been burned (badly) before.
I'd wonder at a people who appear to be that advanced and yet have decided not to fight the Wraith. Niam himself says that 'the Wraith do not concern us', which I would take to mean that the Asurans have embraced the (Ascended) Ancient's (and the Nox, Tollan, and pretty much every advanced race - that isn't actively evil - except for the Asgard, who are careful about what tech and how much they share with us, which I actually kind of like? I mean, it's smart of them to do that) policy of non-interference and wouldn't be interested in sharing their technology. (In which case, can you imagine how amazingly frustrated and pissed Rodney would be?)
And, taking a step back and pretending that the Asurans actually were Ancients that hadn't Ascended? I'd wonder if the reason they aren't fighting the Wraith was due to them being beaten 10,000 years ago and having to retreat to Earth. Making the ones that stayed behind or came back to build the new city leery of continuing or starting a new war against the Wraith because they'd either flat-out assume they'd lose again or just wouldn't want to take the risk at all. (A line of reasoning I completely understand, even if I can't completely agree with it in 'big picture' kind of way. Eventually the Wraith would run out of smaller game and come after the Asurans, which would put them back in the fight whether they liked it or not and I don't doubt that there would be yet another siege.) All of which would still make them dodgy allies at best because they'd have even more reason not to want anything to do with Atlantis and their fight against the Wraith.
But. The Asurans aren't Ancients, Ascended or not, so that's pretty much unimportant in the larger scheme of things.
Oh, god, Shallow moment of me being in love with David Ogden Stiers' voice. (Deeply, madly in love.)
The spartan decor creeps me out. Very FUTURE NOW, but creepy. There is no life to it.
Also, is it a major social faux pas to ask the Asurans if they're actually Ancients? I would assume it would be a greater one to just assume they were, than to question them on it. Mistaken identity and all. (And also? It's like ASKING them to take advantage of you to let them think you think they're Ancients. *insert 'YOU FOOLS!' here* I mean, isn't that basically how the Goa'uld and Ori operate (only with more spilling of blood and killing of innocents)? It's also how gate teams get in trouble off-world, if I recall correctly.)
I am liking that John is so clearly suspicious of the Asurans. Or at least not comfortable with them. I just...someone needs to be, you know?
Oh, Ronon. Oh, Rodney. (I love that Rodney's looking at Ronon when Ronon says that 'where we're from we take care of our family' and that Ronon sort of turns towards Rodney. :D)
And is it me, or is Ronon totally sticking closer to Rodney than he used to?
Okay, so apparently they do plan to fight the Wraith. Please to be forgetting that whole rant thing from earlier. I'm writing this as I watch the episode.
And may I say how adorable John was with the backing up of Rodney? I just...oh, John. Such a dork.
Okay, so this? The part where our intrepid heroes voice their many, many, many suspicions regarding their hosts and the plans of their hosts without fear of being overheard? That is what I so love about television and movies and pretty much any form of fiction.
THE HEROES ARE STUPID.
And yet? Usually manage to triumph over evil anyway. *loves*
You know what would have been, oh, I don't know, smarter than asking for a ZPM? Asking how they're made. I mean, seriously. Have they honestly not heard the proverb about teaching a man to fish? ('Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.')
That's what I like so much about the way the Asgard share their technology with Earth, they don't just give it to us, they guide us in learning to develop it ourselves. Even if the process is frustrating.
They make us work for it so that we actually know what the hell we're doing with it and won't be dependent on them in the future. (Aside from a few instances like the ZPM they gave us in Siege part two, but that's different, since there was the whole IMMINENT DEATH thing.)
And by ‘us’, I mean Stargate-verse Earth, not Real World-Earth, because otherwise that would just make me sound CRAZY. :D
Weir and the others go around asking for ZPMs, and the moment, the MOMENT, they find an advanced race that not only has ZPMs but also knows how to make them, they ask for ZPMs instead of asking to learn how they're made. *facepalm*
I mean, yes. Perhaps the science is beyond them at the moment, but that was pretty much the case when SG-1 got the Naquadah generators, right? And they eventually caught up enough to understand the science behind it and build their own? So what harm can it do to at least ask to do the same with the ZPMs? At worst Oberoth says NO. At best, they get the same chance SG-1 and Earth got all those years ago with the Naquadah generators and a step in the right direction.
Also? Way to give yourself away, Weir. (Quick! Don't tell them we're from Atlantis, but be sure as hell to let the Asurans know that you depend on the ZPMs for power because they'll never figure it out! XD XD XD XD XD)
D'oh!
I...I would so like to think that that was just a clever, clever ploy of hers to make Oberoth feel sympathetic towards them, but really? No. And that might have been a bad risk to take seeing as how they seem to hold some sort of bitterness/resentment towards the Lanteans.
I...honestly? I told myself I wasn't going to be all nitpicky this time around and just enjoy the episode, but they make it so hard. They really do.
Oh, god. Seriously, STOP ASKING THEM TO BE YOUR SUGAR DADDY, IT'S EMBARRASSING.
Do they just not think that the Asurans wouldn't share their knowledge? Or is it that asking for the know-how doesn't make for good television? I'm confused.
This is why I don't think Atlantis will ever deliberately cut ties with Earth on the show - they can't fucking take care of themselves and are always going around looking for handouts instead of learning to adequately fend for themselves.
Weir's making Atlantis out to be a bunch of druggies looking for their next fix, and that's...that's actually kind of scary.
I'm STILL not seeing Weir as being this totally awesome and kickass diplomat, and that makes me sad.
And yet? No matter how frustrating I get? The Sheppard-McKay interaction makes up for all of it. :D
Oooh. I liked that.
May I say how much I love Teyla's hair this season?
Oh, god. Rodney would be the guy with the harmonica in a prison movie, wouldn't he?
LEGO GUNS! XD
Oh, wow. That escape went a little too smoothly, you know? *suspicious*
ZELENKA. :D
Oh, god, is it terrible that I'm paying more attention to the music as the Wraith DESTROY ATLANTIS? :O
And now, now we get the part I was afraid of when I read the spoilers for this episode: Niam is Fifth. Weir is Carter.
GOD, IT BURNS.
Wow. They use that 'you should trust us because we are willing to trust YOU' theme in SGA a lot, don't they? I mean, a LOT. I find that ironic, as there seems to be very little actual trust among the people of Pegasus. (The whole 'survival at whatever cost' frame of mind doesn't tend to lend itself to that where 'outsiders' are involved.)
I...didn't they read the OTHER reports regarding Fifth and Repli-Carter? I...OMG, PLEASE NO MORE, IT BURNS.
THERE IS TEAM TOUCHING.
Oh, okay. So it's more like patting on the arm as they flee for their lives, but hey. TEAM. TOUCHING.
So you know what I want to know? Why didn't they blow Niam up with a drone or throw his body into a sun or something? If they're willing to go so far as to blow up their flying city (with who knows how many Asurans on board) to protect Atlantis, why not go that extra step with Niam? Or, Niam's body since the Asurans from his planet were using him to attack Weir?
Plus. What were they expecting to happen with the planet full of Asurans? As long as they don't have their flying city they aren't a threat to you? Do you honestly want to take the chance that they don't have other, smaller, warships or space craft that could easily destroy your city, or now that they know the address for Earth, EARTH? (I'm pretty sure they'd be able to find a way to get to Earth sooner or later if they really wanted to.)
And also, has it been established that the human Replicators can't...I don't know, infect a human or other being/piece of technology in the same way the original nanovirus could? Because that would kind of be awesome if the human Replicators could do that, what with the whole strangling Weir thing and mind probing of Team Sheppard.
They could totally be held hostage, or used in other nefarious ways to gain knowledge and or access to Atlantis. But I'm thinking in terms of really bad pseudo-science, and they'd never do that on the show. :P
Overall? I liked this episode. Yes, there was bad decision making all around, but that's par for the course. Yes, I am nitpicky beyond all reason, but that too, is par for the course.
I love that in John's mind their escape plans DO go off without a hitch, and that no one gets hurt, no one gets left behind and it's all works like a well-oiled machine. I love that he wants things to go that way, and I feel bad for him because that rarely, if ever, happens in real life.
I love the way he perceives the people around him and everything, everything his little mind-probe illusion showed us about him. ♥
I love that Carl Binder is clearly on board with Gero in regards to Sheppard and McKay being best friends, because he's one of the writers I trust to give us good Sheppard-McKay interaction. ♥
I love that even if Sheppard and McKay aren't actually gay, they really, really are the bestest friends ever and would totally wear the jewelry to prove it. If, you know, that wasn't too teenage girly. XD
P.S. That scene where everyone's in the suite the Asurans put them for the first time? With Ronon slouching on the couch and Rodney sitting next to him while the others stand around talking? God, that reminded me so, so much of school/band trips so, so much and god. I cannot explain why I loved that scene so much. [/lame]