Don't Make Me Lie in a Church

[kismetrose]

My mom's old pastor is a sweet old man, and I have always liked him. He and his wife met my mom when she was ten years old and they were much younger, and they've kept in touch all these years. He and his wife have reminded me of my grandparents like few other people because they share the faith with which my grandparents lived and died. When the

Comments

[reverendfixxxer]

Last night, they talked about Satan as the same old figure of menace and I felt no stirring at all. I wanted to believe in Satan for so long, but the only thing I found behind people's cruelty was humanity in its starkest terms. Chaotic emotions, mistaken perceptions, misfiring synapses; we seem to be designed to err and harm. The propensity for sin is part of our DNA and our destiny. Our internal controls can help us with frequency and degree, but if we live long enough, we're going to do something careless, no matter how well meaning. That understanding has led me to the most forgiving I've ever been. That understanding has taught me a whole new framework for making amends. I don't forgive people for being under the sway of Satan - I forgive them for being what they are. I ask for forgiveness because I am what I am - and I can do better, but I will never be perfect.

It's interesting that you should bring this up, as I recently had a related discussion with someone I work with. I posited the idea that perhaps it's the very length of our lives that draws humanity into a situation where they can't get through it without fucking something up somehow. Think about it... while cancer has always been around (if historical events being blamed on cancers are to be believed, that is), it's become an undeniable epidemic during the last 150 years or so. Why is that? Could it be a result of medicines allowing us to live many years longer than our species was originally intended to? Could that same theory be applied to misfiring synapses, mental blocks or a strong desire to herd together into clicks that gravitate toward an agreed-upon idea?

My ex is an atheist and when I told him about the incident, he was interested that I should feel bad about it. He said that he never felt bad about lying in such instances, when there was no other way to make people happy.

I'm wholeheartedly with Nathan on this one. Honorable as he believed his actions to be, he still put you into a position where you had to do one of two things:
1: Acknowledge a faith that was not your own, with him knowing full well that lying about it would make you feel guilty, which might turn your heart to Jesus, or...
2: Refuse to acknowledge a faith that was not your own, thus making a pariah out of yourself and anyone you came to church with.

The fact that he meant well doesn't excuse his actions in my mind, but if you were bound and determined not to turned into a social pariah, you did exactly the right thing and therefore shouldn't feel bad. That's my take, anyhow.

cont...

[reverendfixxxer]

I think that it has to do with acceptance, or lack thereof. I never told my mother's parents about not being a Christian because there would have been no way out of that discussion. They would never have accepted it. My mom usually tells me that as long as I believe in God, I'm okay by her, but the way she talks makes it clear that she doesn't fully grasp my situation. She sometimes urges me to talk to the pastor so that he can make me understand the way things ultimately are, and that tells me she doesn't get it - but she doesn't force me to lie to her, and she loves me regardless.

My father is much the same way. When religion is going to make it into the conversation, he prefaces by saying "Now I know you've got your own beliefs..." What he's really saying is "I know you think you're not a Christian and I'm willing to skirt the issue on it until the fantasy clears and you rediscover Jesus in your life. Nevermind that I can talk the bible around him in circles; it just doesn't matter. For religion, you've got Jesus and Other to choose from. He at least does me the courtesy of not specifically trying to turn every conversation we have towards a discussion about the wonder of loving Jesus. He doesn't understand my beliefs, he doesn't want to understand them, he wouldn't try to understand them if I explained them to him (which I haven't), but so long as he can keep riding the denial train that still allows his son to get into Heaven with him, then that's what he's going to do. I know he loves me because he wants me to go to Heaven and I know he respects me by not directly pushing the issue to confrontation. In return, I love respect him too much to tell him the reasons I think his religion is just plain wrong.

Love and happiness can (and most of the time do) exist on what is essentially a hotbed of half-truths and blind eyes.

[kismetrose]

I posited the idea that perhaps it's the very length of our lives that draws humanity into a situation where they can't get through it without fucking something up somehow.
I don't know that it's just length of life, but a byproduct of life itself. Being faced with enough choices, eventually you're going to make a bad one. But I very much see what you mean on a physical level. I've wondered the same about cancer, myself.
The fact that he meant well doesn't excuse his actions in my mind, but if you were bound and determined not to turned into a social pariah, you did exactly the right thing and therefore shouldn't feel bad. That's my take, anyhow.
I had my mom with me and I really didn't want to embarrass her, surrounded as we were with all these people on the man's birthday. I've felt better about it since I wrote it down and looked at why it made me uncomfortable. I want people to understand that the choice between religion and atheism isn't the only choice, but some folks don't want to and never will. That's luckily not my problem on a regular basis.
Love and happiness can (and most of the time do) exist on what is essentially a hotbed of half-truths and blind eyes
Oh, definitely. That's how humanity gets along half the time. If we didn't, we'd murder each other even more than we do. =)