Behold, the curse of Stacey!! All shall tremble at my lack of money-making skills!!!!

[kiri_koli]

So, it's been a while.  I considered updating a coupla times over the last week, but I was too lazy.  I was going to write about Washington D.C. but I really just don't feel like it.  I mean, it was fun, but it wasn't anything special.  My family never quite relaxed enough to enjoy it overall...though we had our moments.  Sam was fun, but my

Comments

[kiri_koli]

Though we're not 100% sure, of course, it's a really really safe bet that the events as written did not occur. I would go as far as to say that the written version isn't even close to anything in reality as there is a significant lack of evidence of mass slavery at all in Egypt; they did have slaves, but a slave force as big as the one suggested in the Bible would leave evidence that simply doesn't exist. Besides that, there is increasing evidence to support the idea that workers and artisans were prized members of society and were provided with food, clothing, etc. while they worked even as far back as the Old Kingdom. Actually, we've had evidence for the Middle and New Kingdoms in the form of worker camps that displays no mechanisms for slavery and good working conditions for a long time. Everyone just likes to ignore that evidence. It's getting more popular now that similar camps have been found at Giza, debunking that idea that the pyramids were built by slaves.

But anyway, fair is fair and there is extremely sketchy evidence for a rough foundation to the story. And it's not just sketchy cuz I don't want to believe it...it deals with the Hyksos who we really don't know much about. Here's what I told the SA peoples:

'There will always be traces of mass slavery in archaeological evidence and, if you believe that the Exodus was taking place during the reign of Ramesses the Great (as indicated in Exodus 1:11 by the description of the city of Piramesses and the Hewbrew rendering of his name, Raamses), then it would be hard to believe that they lost "stacks of their best soldiers" given the evidence of military conquest by Ramesses the Great, arguably the best warrior to ever hold the throne.

Also, there is the conflict of dates. 1 Kings 6:1 indicates that the Exodus occurred, by Biblical chronology of events, around 1450 BCE. This, ironically, places the Exodus during the reign of Thutmose III, who, by best estimates, had only just managed to steal the throne back from Hatshepsut, his co-regent turned self-proclaimed female pharaoh only eight years before. The Thutmose line was based in Thebes, far from the Delta were Piramesses would be located 12 pharaohs later.

There is also a lack of evidence as to a whole generation being wiped out. The Egyptians were not known for having many children...killing all the firstborn would have left a mark, especially considering the upheavals that followed during the reign of Merenptah, Ramesses sucessor. The Libyians, the Nubians and the mysterious 'People of the Sea' all attacked at this time and yet Egyptian stability a long time after Merenptah's reign, declining only with a series of weak pharaohs after Ramesses III (who was seperated from Ramesses II by some seven kings). There is a reference to Merenptah fighting Israelites, but the reference is clearly part of many fights with many peoples in the region, which Ramesses the Great had invaded.

There is evidence of Semitic people in Egypt. Styles of pottery and clothing found indicate that they started settling there as early as the 12th Dynasty (1970-1795 BCE). These people, however, cannot be directly traced to the people mentioned in the Bible, but they were from a similar region and background. Actually the Hyksos, who invaded Egypt during the Second Intermediate Period, were said to be of Semitic origin. Interestingly the Hyksos capital of Avarice was later absorbed by Piramesses and the Hyksos, as some enemies were, could have been used as slaves alongside other enemy foreigners. However, there is no record of there being the number of slaves reported in the Bible and there is no evidence of many (or any) slaves leaving.'

There, I hope that's clear. There was more clarifying on my part later, but I'm not going to post it all. If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

[hawaiianham]

Yea I just wonder because if there is no historical evidence of Jews being held as slaves in Egypt, then they were never led to the "promised land" and the entire idea that Israel is "theirs" and "god gave it them", etc is bullshit.

Anyway, have you ever read anything about aliens building the pyramids? Or about spaceships and stuff in hieroglyphics? Seriously.

[kiri_koli]

Eh, the whole Exodus and 'promised land' thing always seemed to me just more of the persecution theme the whole religion has going on. Not a big deal really, except that it's lead sooo many people to believe stupid things about Egypt. Even after all I said in the thread, there's still some guy talking about some crackpot theory supported by bricks made without straw during Rameses' reign...which he contests is interesting because it shows that materials used on the *pyramids* during the time the Hebrews were there, blah, blah, blah...it makes me want to give up. It wouldn't be so bad if people really knew *nothing* about Egypt...hell, I know nothing about other early African peoples, but I *admit* it. So many people go around spouting bullshit like they know...

Anyway, I haven't read that much. Occasionally I'll come across a crackpot website while looking for something real...there was one about how the Great Pyramid was actually an irrigation system. That was amusing. And I've of course heard about the aliens and how they carved the Sphinx a billion years ago, blah, blah...I dunno about spaceships and hieroglyphs though. I heard that hieroglyphs were an alien language cuz they came outta nowhere, but spaceships?

[hawaiianham]

http://www.ufoartwork.com/ I think it was this site I was thinking of. No hieroglyphics actually...just some cave drawings. I don't know why I associated the two. I know nothing about ancient history. Anyway, just my X-Fileish wishful thinking :-(

Is it true that the pyramids are so perfectly symetrical that it would be impossible to reproduce them today? I have no idea where I've heard these weird theories...but for some reason I remember them.

[kiri_koli]

If you're looking for X-Fileish stuff, there isn't that much to find in Egypt...you'd have more luck with the Nazca lines. Now those are just crazy.

Not all pyramids were that accurate...it was a trial and error process and the Bent Pyramid for example was built at so steep an angle that they had to change it halfway through.

The Great Pyramid, however, is not only the biggest, it's probably the best. The blocks are so fitted that a credit card cannot be put between them. The base is almost a perfect square with the parallel lines between the north and south sides being off by only an inch. It's almost perfectly aligned with the compass points and all four sides rise at an angle of 51 degrees 52' and were originally smooth. And all of this done with copper tools and without pulleys and such.

I don't see why it would be impossible to reproduce, but it would be very hard, especially if we were determined to use the tools they had. The pyramids did take years to build and we don't know all the techniques they used perfectly. *shrugs* We do know the basics though, so the perfection isn't really evidence of aliens or anything. Sorry. ;)

[chissphile_sum]

Nazca is awesome. I wish I could explain that one, but I can't. There doesn't seem to be a way to construct it without a view from air.

Another cool one is Angkor Wat in cambodia. Before th Siamese invasion, the Khmer just disappeared. No evidence for migration, none for disease, they just disappeared. Spooky. :)

[kiri_koli]

Yeah, I remember reading a bit about that, but I couldn't remember what it was called. The temple is really cool looking.

Another decent example is Chaco Canyon and the Anasazi. They built a large cultural center that was the focus of a lot of migration. And then they largely disappeared and the people that remained in the region didn't touch the site or built anything as complex following the same architectual or religious patterns.