Kink Me! #32

Oct 06, 2012 17:40



Kink Me! #32
CLOSED to new promptsA new meme will open in a few weeks.Welcome to Kink Me! Merlin #32! :D

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Re: No Queen of Hearts (27/?) anonymous November 8 2013, 13:42:24 UTC
Oh wow, seeing this way late -- I'm the anon you replied to =)

When I say that Merlin "chose" Gwen for Arthur, I meant simply that Merlin loved Gwen and loved Arthur and felt that no one could be better for Arthur than Gwen. I don't think Merlin was conscious of the fact that he was effectively trying to control Arthur's choice of spouse.

Of course, Merlin may also have been guided in this by the Dragon, who'd called Gwen "the once and future queen" and blathered on about her importance to Arthur at one point. But either way, Merlin was a blatant Gwen/Arthur shipper, and did his best to make their union happen.

And I don't doubt that Gwen and Arthur loved the idea of each other -- I'd even say that they were in love. Except that Arthur's love, at least, was of the chivalric romantic kind, where you put the lady on the pedestal and worship her without ever sullying her image with the idea that she might be a real human being with flaws and warts. Arthur noticed Gwen when she called him out on his bad behaviour, and when she expressed confidence that he'd be a great king... She was his moral arbiter and he had to be worthy of her, she made him better, she would be a great queen... There was a lot of respect there, and a lot of idealisation, but not a whole lot of focus on real-person Gwen, who might have needs and desires and petulant moods and who knows what else.

And I do think that Gwen was genuinely in love with Arthur, and that she was walking into the marriage with eyes wider open than his -- but one reason why I so totally buy this story is that I can see Gwen, after the wedding, realising that this was the way Arthur saw her. That his love for her was not quite the same as her love for him, and that they'd missed an important memo somewhere.

Although it's true what you say; I don't recall Gwen saying a lot that she'd like to be Arthur's wife...

And, uh. Sorry for the sudden belated tl;dr?

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Re: No Queen of Hearts (27/?) anonymous November 8 2013, 15:33:33 UTC
The dragon never called Gwen the once and future queen. That's a fan construct. There was an episode called that, a play on words of the Arthurian legend, but Gwen was not called the O&FQ on the show.

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Re: No Queen of Hearts (27/?) anonymous November 9 2013, 21:21:57 UTC
Odd... I remember being annoyed at Kilgarrah at some point when he insinuated something about Gwen's fated role by Arthur's side. You may be right, though, of course.

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Re: No Queen of Hearts (27/?) anonymous November 10 2013, 01:48:21 UTC
I think you might be thinking of the ep "Sweet Dreams", when the dragon called Gwen Arthur's "true" love. Kissing her would break Arthur of his "lover's" spell with Vivian. Nothing of a fated role for Gwen with Arthur was ever mentioned by Kilgarrah. In fact that was the only time he ever spoke of her.

Merlin once said he "knew" Arthur & Gwen were fated to be together, and Gaius rightly called Merlin arrogant for the assumption. (Just to show you where my mind is at, I mistakenly typed "Arthur & Merlin" were fated to be together, before I proofread.)

Big difference between fate and destiny in this sense, don't you agree?

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Re: No Queen of Hearts (27/?) anonymous December 2 2013, 17:21:29 UTC
And right back to "Merlin was the driving force in making that relationship happen" XD

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Re: No Queen of Hearts (27/?) anonymous December 2 2013, 23:25:45 UTC
And really, it should have been Arthur who was the driving force that made it happen. Or Arthur and Gwen. If they had been shown wanting it as much as Merlin did, maybe it would have been more convincing and less fandom-divisive.

Going back to the original point of all this, though: The OP was incorrect, Kilgarrah never said Arthur and Gwen were fated to be together, and he certainly never said they were each other's destiny. It's cute though that fans of the pairing think he did.

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Re: No Queen of Hearts (27/?) b_mouse December 3 2013, 00:00:21 UTC
Hi mice!

Given the potential for this to be an extremely divisive discussion, I'm very grateful to everyone for keeping it calm and polite despite differences of opinion. Thank you all! :D

At this point, since I haven't seen the author or the original OP on the thread in ages, I'd like to request that this conversation be moved somewhere less connected to the work. I've made a space for you here at my journal (no IP tracking, anon comments on), or you could try an anon meme or other space where you feel comfortable. My goal is to allow everyone involved to speak freely without the potential for any disagreements to reflect on the fill itself.

Thanks again to everyone. Let us know via the mod post if you need anything or have questions.

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