theories part 1nightswhisperSeptember 13 2010, 01:17:23 UTC
XD I wasn't sure if the hotness that is Cendric was allowed to be gushed over here, but yea. I did a "Oh HELLO there!"
But I had a lot of time to think upon this at work today. (because most of my job requires very little brain power. x.x) And Here's my little thought/plot bubble... Warning, this is INSANELY long.
What if Uther is connected closer to Morgana but is not her father? What if Ygraine was her mother?
As far as we know, from Gaius mentioning that Morgause having a right to have something with Glorois' crest on it, is that they are half sister through their father. Granted, we don't know how Morgause knew about Morgana. But we assume that the priestesses taught her how to see things from a far so she could know what was going on without being in the middle of things. That leaves to question why is their mother different?
What if, before the great purge, the fight to build Camelot/against magic started out as a fight against dark magics? Ones that were acting for the thieves and traitors. Because Gaius was a practitioner, and we assume since both children are capable that Goloris had some talent himself. Uther also associated with Nimueh. So he couldn't have thought that all magic was ENTIRELY evil at one point. So Goloris' lover/wife was openly a sorceress but had ties to a darker group that was working against Uther.
Golorois came out on the side of his king, holding her captive until the child was born, but could not bear to punish his child for something that was not her fault. So he sent her away with Gaius whom he had known for many a year. (We don't know exactly what Gaius' origins are. But he has ties to magic and is always quick to agree what a good person Golorois was therefore perhaps he knew him very well too.) But after all this, he takes to defending the edges of the kingdom where he doesn't have to face Uther and the guilt.
There he meets Ygraine/is arranged in a marriage with. (Whatever one prefers) They wed. And Uther visits them. ANd falls in love with her. Now he could just exercise his power as king and roughly suggest that their marriage be anulled because he says so. Or maybe the feeling was mutual? (ghost!Ygraine, if that's who it was, had said that holding Arthur for the few mins was the happiest of her life. I doubt that a child with someone you don't care for would evoke such a feeling.) EIther way, Golorois sees the battle a losing one and consents. Except, Ygrain is pregnant. ANd they can't just wisk her away to Camelot to wed Uther as the timing wouldn't work and her honor would be questioned.
So Golorois makes a deal. HE won't let them 'do away' with the child fearing the risks/later retribution. Instead he keeps the child to raise as his own under oath he will never tell her the difference and she is wavered from any claims of leadership. BUT that if anything happens to her that he must take her in. It breaks Ygraine's heart, but it's better then killing the child.
Except when Ygrain and Uther are happily married they find out that due to complications with Morgana's delivery she is now barren. Enter Nimueh, Arthur, and the subsequent tragedy.
I would also like to suggest here that perhaps Ygraine was (possibly recessively) magical.
theories part 2nightswhisperSeptember 13 2010, 01:17:42 UTC
Thus Morgause's "I knew her very well." could refer to Ygraine in several ways. Maybe she was raised with the thought that she was the woman who destroyed her mother and father (in her own way.) Maybe she knew her as the reason more tragedy had befallen Morgana. Or maybe she knew her when she was young/with the priestesses. (Note: The actresses are roughly nine years apart with characters who knows how much. If Arthur and Morgana are no more then two years in difference it would stand to reason that a good 6-7 years could have existed before Ygraine and Goloris in this theoretical universe met, and her to have had some fond memory of Ygraine.) This would also give her a few more layers to hate Uther...if it were really necessary.
"you've always treated me as your own." She very well could have been (of a sort.) At the very least she was teh child of someone he loved and threfore dear to him. (outside of ship.)
Could also point to reasons he treats her like he would Ygraine (in our eyes.)
We also NEVER hear Morgana speak of her mother. Perhaps her father talked frequently about her, albeit vaguely, adoringly. Therefore she doesn't feel like she's missing pieces like Arthur does with a father who barely speaks his mother's name.
Uther's secrets Gaius doesn't know? Everything related to this incident/ the guilt over it.
The connection being that he has a hard time separating her from his own, as her being a stem of Ygraine, and her being this essential piece to his existence.
Also, failing her would not be only failing her (this woman he has grown to love - something he is torn, confused, and maybe even a tad disgusted by ) is essentially failing his beloved wife, and his friend for have letting her slip by after all that his friend had given to him/for him.
And, all and all... how many times did we hear some variation of "If I didn't promise your father you would be punished/banished/beheaded/etc. Would you...really be THAT severe on your OWN child?
Re: theories part 2sherrilinaSeptember 13 2010, 02:46:25 UTC
And, all and all... how many times did we hear some variation of "If I didn't promise your father you would be punished/banished/beheaded/etc. Would you...really be THAT severe on your OWN child?
IKR?! Come one writers, GET REAL, don't forget your own freaking canon here!
But then continuity has never been their strongpoint, so I'm worried they won't let that stand in their way...:(
Interesting theory, IDK though Ygraine/Uther has been protrayed as pretty OTP/true love from what we know, but yeah, ANYTHING but U/M as father-daughter, I'd be willing to have A/Mor as siblings as long as Uther isn't the father...*shudder*
Re: theories part 2narrativelivingSeptember 13 2010, 03:38:00 UTC
I don't know about anyone else, but going on what I know of the original myth, where Uther had Gorlois killed in order to possess Igraine,(Tho, LOL at the thought of the writers giving a damn about the original myth), I took Uther's "Indeed" to mean he KILLED Gorlois, and now fears having to do the same to Morgana. (I had just watched Mists of Avalon days before the episode aired, so that might have something to do with this theory.)
Re: theories part 2sherrilinaSeptember 13 2010, 03:56:42 UTC
Yeah, I feel like they dealt with that here though by making him partly responsible for the death, with his failure to provide the promised backup...it would seem though from 1x12 that he was good friends with Gorlois (unlike in the legend), too much for him to have had much more of a role in G's death...
But again, anything but Gorlois not being her dad...(and lol, MoA is great, though sadly this show doesn't take many cues from it).
But I had a lot of time to think upon this at work today. (because most of my job requires very little brain power. x.x) And Here's my little thought/plot bubble... Warning, this is INSANELY long.
What if Uther is connected closer to Morgana but is not her father? What if Ygraine was her mother?
As far as we know, from Gaius mentioning that Morgause having a right to have something with Glorois' crest on it, is that they are half sister through their father. Granted, we don't know how Morgause knew about Morgana. But we assume that the priestesses taught her how to see things from a far so she could know what was going on without being in the middle of things. That leaves to question why is their mother different?
What if, before the great purge, the fight to build Camelot/against magic started out as a fight against dark magics? Ones that were acting for the thieves and traitors. Because Gaius was a practitioner, and we assume since both children are capable that Goloris had some talent himself. Uther also associated with Nimueh. So he couldn't have thought that all magic was ENTIRELY evil at one point. So Goloris' lover/wife was openly a sorceress but had ties to a darker group that was working against Uther.
Golorois came out on the side of his king, holding her captive until the child was born, but could not bear to punish his child for something that was not her fault. So he sent her away with Gaius whom he had known for many a year. (We don't know exactly what Gaius' origins are. But he has ties to magic and is always quick to agree what a good person Golorois was therefore perhaps he knew him very well too.) But after all this, he takes to defending the edges of the kingdom where he doesn't have to face Uther and the guilt.
There he meets Ygraine/is arranged in a marriage with. (Whatever one prefers) They wed. And Uther visits them. ANd falls in love with her. Now he could just exercise his power as king and roughly suggest that their marriage be anulled because he says so. Or maybe the feeling was mutual? (ghost!Ygraine, if that's who it was, had said that holding Arthur for the few mins was the happiest of her life. I doubt that a child with someone you don't care for would evoke such a feeling.) EIther way, Golorois sees the battle a losing one and consents. Except, Ygrain is pregnant. ANd they can't just wisk her away to Camelot to wed Uther as the timing wouldn't work and her honor would be questioned.
So Golorois makes a deal. HE won't let them 'do away' with the child fearing the risks/later retribution. Instead he keeps the child to raise as his own under oath he will never tell her the difference and she is wavered from any claims of leadership. BUT that if anything happens to her that he must take her in. It breaks Ygraine's heart, but it's better then killing the child.
Except when Ygrain and Uther are happily married they find out that due to complications with Morgana's delivery she is now barren. Enter Nimueh, Arthur, and the subsequent tragedy.
I would also like to suggest here that perhaps Ygraine was (possibly recessively) magical.
Reply
Thus Morgause's "I knew her very well." could refer to Ygraine in several ways. Maybe she was raised with the thought that she was the woman who destroyed her mother and father (in her own way.) Maybe she knew her as the reason more tragedy had befallen Morgana. Or maybe she knew her when she was young/with the priestesses. (Note: The actresses are roughly nine years apart with characters who knows how much. If Arthur and Morgana are no more then two years in difference it would stand to reason that a good 6-7 years could have existed before Ygraine and Goloris in this theoretical universe met, and her to have had some fond memory of Ygraine.) This would also give her a few more layers to hate Uther...if it were really necessary.
"you've always treated me as your own." She very well could have been (of a sort.) At the very least she was teh child of someone he loved and threfore dear to him. (outside of ship.)
Could also point to reasons he treats her like he would Ygraine (in our eyes.)
We also NEVER hear Morgana speak of her mother. Perhaps her father talked frequently about her, albeit vaguely, adoringly. Therefore she doesn't feel like she's missing pieces like Arthur does with a father who barely speaks his mother's name.
Uther's secrets Gaius doesn't know? Everything related to this incident/ the guilt over it.
The connection being that he has a hard time separating her from his own, as her being a stem of Ygraine, and her being this essential piece to his existence.
Also, failing her would not be only failing her (this woman he has grown to love - something he is torn, confused, and maybe even a tad disgusted by ) is essentially failing his beloved wife, and his friend for have letting her slip by after all that his friend had given to him/for him.
And, all and all... how many times did we hear some variation of "If I didn't promise your father you would be punished/banished/beheaded/etc. Would you...really be THAT severe on your OWN child?
SO yes. there's my 25 cents.
Reply
IKR?! Come one writers, GET REAL, don't forget your own freaking canon here!
But then continuity has never been their strongpoint, so I'm worried they won't let that stand in their way...:(
Interesting theory, IDK though Ygraine/Uther has been protrayed as pretty OTP/true love from what we know, but yeah, ANYTHING but U/M as father-daughter, I'd be willing to have A/Mor as siblings as long as Uther isn't the father...*shudder*
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(I had just watched Mists of Avalon days before the episode aired, so that might have something to do with this theory.)
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But again, anything but Gorlois not being her dad...(and lol, MoA is great, though sadly this show doesn't take many cues from it).
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