pairing meme answers, part 2
More responses to this meme. I got a bit verbose, but I guess that's sort of the point.
I've done my best to avoid major spoilers for recent or hard-to-find canon (sometimes by making them highlight-to-read), but minor spoilers abound and there may be spoilers in comments.
stunt_muppet asked about Antonio/Sebastian (Twelfth Night)
1. When I started shipping them
The first time I read the play, whenever that was. And then my shippiness was reinforced by Trevor Nunn's film with Nicholas Farrell as Antonio and Steven Mackintosh as Sebastian.
The fact that my love for the pairing has survived having to teach the play to undergraduates shows the level of my devotion.
2. What I think their challenge is
Sebastian agreeing to marry a rich but (he thinks) possibly crazy woman he's never met before.
3. What makes me happy about them
"For three months before / No interim, not a minute's vacancy / Both day and night did we keep company."
Okay, bed-sharing in this time period doesn't necessarily indicate h0t s3xx0rz, but, you know, it helps.
4. What makes me sad about them
Antonio's feelings for Sebastian are perfectly clear--he talks about his adoration to anyone who'll stand still and listen. But whether Sebastian returns those feelings is, to put it mildly, doubtful. Their first scene together is basically Sebastian saying, "No, you can't come with me. No, I'm not going to tell you where I'm going. Please stop asking." He relents a bit, of course, and he seems pleased enough later when Antonio turns up. But there's nevertheless a sense that for Sebastian those three months were a nice fling, whereas Antonio is shopping for curtains.
5. What moment I wish had never happened
A sort of non-moment: we don't know what happens to Antonio. There's a line late in act 5 when he and Sebastian see each other and Sebastian says how much he missed him, and then Antonio disappears from the story. It's especially a problem because Antonio is Orsino's prisoner, accused of piracy, and Orsino has a personal grudge against him because Orsino's nephew lost his leg in battle against Antonio. Some productions have Antonio remain a prisoner, with the guards leading him off (perhaps to execution). More typical is what Trevor Nunn does--Orsino frees Antonio as part of the general spirit of celebration, but Antonio recognizes that there's no role for him in Sebastian's new life, and quietly leaves.
Sadly, there's no way to get from the play text to an ending where they run away together.
6. Who I'd be comfortable them ending up with, if not each other
There's a definite possibility for some shifting around between the two married couples, leading to Sebastian/Orsino and Olivia/Viola. (Orsino's reaction to learning that Cesario is actually Viola--"awesome, let's get married! Olivia who?"--only makes sense if we assume that he was already in love with Cesario. Whether he would love Viola as much is an open question, just like whether Olivia would love Sebastian, who's really a man but not really Cesario.)
I'm tempted to pair Shakespeare's two Antonios. TN Antonio could easily meet Merchant of Venice's Antonio, who has also just been dumped by the young man he loved. Whether it would work long-term is questionable, especially since MoV Antonio seems to have a taste for aristocrats and the upper-class life. But they're the two more-or-less canonical gay men in Shakespeare's plays, and they'd hardly be worse off trying to love each other than loving stupid boys who will leave them.
7. My happily ever after for them
After a few months of married life, Sebastian decides it was a huge mistake and runs away to sea, and to Antonio.
weird_cowgirl asked about Nicholas/Danny (Hot Fuzz)
1. When I started shipping them
Not the first time I saw the movie, actually. My initial reaction to Hot Fuzz was lukewarm, and I read the Nicholas-Danny relationship very differently from how I read it now. At that time I didn't know much about Simon Pegg and Nick Frost's strong real-life friendship, and I assumed that the Nicholas/Danny implications were meant jokingly. I thought that the casting of a fat man as Danny was meant to ensure that the homoerotic subtext wasn't taken seriously (because in most movies/TV shows, fat people's sexuality is portrayed as a joke).
It wasn't until I'd talked about the movie with other folks, and learned more about Simon and Nick, that I realized Hot Fuzz was doing something different and much cooler than "LOL pathetic fat guy has a crush on the hero."
2. What I think their challenge is
By the movie's end they've already gotten past their biggest challenge, which was Nicholas's inability to care more about a person than about his job.
3. What makes me happy about them
Cuddly monkeys! Totally accidental snuggling on the couch! Peace lilies! Life-saving with a packet of ketchup!
4. What makes me sad about them
About them in canon, nothing.
Nicholas/Danny stories about how Nicholas helps Danny lose weight (and therefore, it's implied, become worthy of love) however, make me irate sad. Fortunately there aren't too many of them.
5. What moment I wish had never happened
The bit where they're standing in the rain after the incident at the church fête and Nicholas has a go at Danny. *hugs sad!Danny*
6. Who I'd be comfortable them ending up with, if not each other
They have to end up together, damn it! *is OTP-ish*
Okay, fine, I'll imagine an AU where Danny dies. Nicholas leaves Sandford ASAP, goes back to London . . . and ends up married to his job again, because it was Danny who changed him and I don't think that would outlast Danny's death. He'd probably never let anyone get close to him, emotionally, ever again.
AU in which Nicholas doesn't come back to Sandford. Danny soon runs afoul of the NWA, because he knows now what they really do and he can't just accept that. And bad things happen to Danny. Or, if Frank warns him in time, Danny hightails it for London and Nicholas.
Nope, there's just no universe in which they end up with other people.
7. My happily ever after for them
Cottage, roses, two peace lilies in matching pots, cuddly monkey, occasional high-speed chases through the center of town.
wolkendunst asked about Hornblower/Bush. I'll answer for bookverse, because that's where the most interesting stuff is.
1. When I started shipping them
The conversation between Bush and Lady Barbara in The Happy Return when Bush goes on and on about how awesome Hornblower is. A sample: Bush was not talking of himself, as any sensible man would do under a tropic moon with a young woman beside him.
"Aye, ma'am," he was saying. "He's like Nelson. He's nervous, just as Nelson was, and for the same reason. He's thinking all the time--you'd be surprised, ma'am, to know how much he thinks about."
"I don't think it would surprise me," said Lady Barbara.
"That's because you think, too, ma'am. It's us stupid ones who'd be surprised, I meant to say. He has more brains than all the rest of us in the ship put together, excepting you, ma'am. He's mighty clever, I do assure you."
"I can well believe it."
"And he's the best seaman of us all, and as for navigation--well, Crystal's a fool compared with him, ma'am."
"Yes?"
"Of course, he's short with me sometimes, the same as he is with everyone else, but bless you, ma'am, that's only to be expected. I know how much he has to worry him, and he's not strong, the same as Nelson wasn't strong. I am concerned about him sometimes, ma'am."
"You are fond of him."
"Fond, ma'am?" Bush's sturdy English mind grappled with the word and its sentimental implications, and he laughed a trifle selfconsciously. "If you say so I suppose I must be. I hadn't ever thought of being fond of him before. I like him, ma'am, indeed I do."
2. What I think their challenge is
Mostly the fact that Hornblower is a bottomless pit of neuroses who takes his self-loathing out on anyone who loves him, and is obsessed with seeming to have no emotions and no weaknesses. He treats Bush badly a lot of the time. As the above excerpt demonstrates, Bush knows exactly what's going on and isn't perturbed by it, but it's still a barrier (especially when Hornblower uses his authority to keep Bush at a distance).
Hornblower's fixation on doing his duty, which for him is not well distinguished from following every naval regulation to the letter, is an issue too, because he'd be genuinely reluctant to violate the Articles of War by having sex with a man. The technical definition of sodomy is an available loophole, and I could see Hornblower using it, but he'd nevertheless see it as legalistic quibbling and he'd hate himself for it. (Mind you, he hates himself for everything anyway.) A sexual relationship between him and Bush would, I think, have to take place when they're not at sea, which limits the opportunities a fair bit. But on a happier note, I don't think either man would have any moral objections to male/male sex: Bush is too pragmatic to worry and Hornblower doesn't give a damn about conventional sexual morality.
3. What makes me happy about them
Hand-holding. Stealth cuddles. Hornblower's intensely physical admiration for Bush ("He's so strong! And yet so lithe and agile!"). Bush's protectiveness towards Hornblower and his admiration of Hornblower's courage and intelligence.
Also, the curtainfic is freaking canon.
4. What makes me sad about them
Major spoiler, highlight to read. Bush getting blown to bits at Caudebec. Although Hornblower's reaction (leave the village in ruins! and maybe build a pyramid of skulls!) is a gratifying proof of his love.
5. What moment I wish had never happened
Slight spoiler, highlight to read: Mrs. Mason catching them sneaking into the house at four o'clock in the morning. If that hadn't happened, if they'd actually gone upstairs to bed, everything could have been different.
6. Who I'd be comfortable them ending up with, if not each other
There could be an awesome crossover in which Bush meets Jack Aubrey; they'd get along really well, and Jack has many of Hornblower's good qualities without his coldness and cruel tendencies. The trouble is, Stephen wouldn't like this situation one bit, plus if Stephen and Hornblower met they'd detest each other and probably fight a duel. So Bush/Aubrey would have to occur in an interval when Stephen was ashore and Bush wasn't serving with Hornblower. They could have a nice fling that wouldn't last but would have lots of good sex, mutual respect, and tenderness. And they'd enjoy remembering later.
Bookverse Hornblower is harder to pair off. Of his canonical love interests, Maria and Marie are both doormats, and while I find Lady Barbara a much more interesting character (and I really like her in The Happy Return), I can't forgive her behavior in Lord Hornblower. Maybe Hornblower could get shipwrecked for about a year with Jack Sparrow (*ignores timelines*) until he's loosened up a bit? Or, if I was going to cross over bookverse Hornblower with a TV-verse character, Hornblower/Edrington. Edrington has all that honorable soldierly stuff that turns Hornblower's crank, but he's also got a certain wry cynicism and a suggestion of carnality, both of which would do Hornblower good. (Sorry, Kennedy fans, but I can't see bookverse Hornblower with him. Oh, and I know Edrington is also in bookverse, but he's sort of a cipher there; it's with TV!Edrington that I could see the pairing.)
7. My happily ever after for them
That moment in #5 doesn't happen; h0t s3xx0rz ensue. Bush still becomes Hornblower's lieutenant in the Hotspur, and although Hornblower is at first hugely ashamed/guilty about Article XXIX and tries to avoid further h0t s3xx0rz, that resolution doesn't last once he realizes that he and Bush can have an excellent professional relationship and a personal connection as well. Hornblower never turns into the emotional wreck that he is in The Happy Return and subsequently because the things that made him that way (namely his miserable marriage and then the deaths of his children) don't happen. Not that he's ever the cheeriest and most easygoing person in the world, but he's more stable and more trusting. And because he's not so driven to be a Big Damn Hero, maybe various bad things don't happen.
wolkendunst also asked about Vetinari/Drumknott (Discworld).
1. When I started shipping them
Fairly late in my Discworld reading, actually. I read The Truth (after having finished all the Watch books) and was blown away by the interview scene between Drumknott and William de Worde. Drumknott is so fiercely loyal, so protective of Vetinari, and that's shipper catnip to me.
2. What I think their challenge is
Vetinari's (understandable) disinclination to trust anyone, which is compounded by Vetinari's marked ascetic tendencies.
3. What makes me happy about them
I wrote a whole ship manifesto about it, but in brief: Drumknott's loyalty, the slow but clear growth of Vetinari's trust, the banter and teasing, the mutual respect.
4. What makes me sad about them
Vetinari would be insistent about concealing their personal relationship--perhaps more insistent than was entirely necessary--and I think Drumknott would find that difficult. Also, the age difference means that Drumknott will very likely be bereaved at some point, and he's less equipped to cope with the loss than Vetinari is.
5. What moment I wish had never happened
The way Vetinari talks to Margolotta about Drumknott in Unseen Academicals. There are a bunch of ways to fankwank it, I know, and I support them wholeheartedly. But I still hate that conversation and would gladly wipe it from canon. (Since the multiverse theory is canonical in the Discworld, and Pratchett himself has said "there are no inconsistencies in Discworld, only alternate pasts," I in fact have wiped it from my personal canon. UA is AU to me.)
6. Who I'd be comfortable them ending up with, if not each other
I still like Vetinari/Vimes a lot, although it has plenty of difficulties, both practical and emotional.
There are some folks who ship Drumknott/Moist von Lipwig, but I'm afraid I don't see it. Moist's flamboyance would get on Drumknott's nerves, and Moist canonically finds Drumknott "prim." I think Drumknott/Ponder Stibbons has possibilities, although I don't know when they'd have any time to spend together. Which is a problem for any other Drumknott pairing, actually; Drumknott is secretary to a tireless workaholic and probably doesn't get out of the palace much. He hasn't got time for a relationship, and my head canon for Midwinter!Drumknott is that he's mostly had one-night stands, with a few short flings primarily in his younger years before he became Vetinari's secretary.
7. My happily ever after for them
Pretty much the future I implied in Midwinter--they have a secret but long-term affair that builds on their working relationship. It's not exactly a conventional happily-ever-after due to the secrecy and the whole problem of finding the time (I think they quickly establish a sort of informal schedule in which they spend each Octeday evening and night together, but not, ordinarily, any other night), but it's what Vetinari can give, and Drumknott finds it acceptable.
silver_sandals asked about Three/Delgado!Master (Doctor Who)
1. When I started shipping them
I was, as is typical for me because I tend to get into fandoms after hearing about how boyslashy they are, ready to ship them before I'd even seen them. (And I had seen Ten/Simm!Master already.) The sexy phone call in "Terror of the Autons," so nicely paralleled by the one in "The Sound of Drums" would've convinced me if I'd needed convincing. And Roger Delgado's unexpected hotness and charisma, which doesn't come across well in still photographs but is devastating onscreen, helped.
2. What I think their challenge is
For these two particularly, as opposed to Doctor/Master in general, I'd say the fact that the Doctor has developed friendships on earth by the time the Master starts wooing him. If the Master had turned up right after "Spearhead From Space," I think the Doctor would've been really, really tempted, because he's not happy being stuck on earth and he's angry as hell at the Time Lords.
3. What makes me happy about them
The way they work together, on those mysteriously frequent occasions when they have to. And their "we had a bitter divorce which has not at all decreased our desire to fuck each other senseless" vibe.
4. What makes me sad about them
The moments when there seems to be real, deep enmity, like the Doctor abandoning the Master to die at the end of "The Mind of Evil," and the Master shooting the Doctor in "Frontier in Space."
5. What moment I wish had never happened
As above. Specifically the "Mind of Evil" scene, because the hostility is more disturbing coming from the Doctor, and the shooting in FiS was perhaps not entirely intentional.
6. Who I'd be comfortable them ending up with, if not each other
Three/Jo is a rare non-canonical het ship I'm fond of; their interaction is jokey but tender, and Jo holds her own against the Doctor because she has her own strengths. I also like Three/Mike Yates--I wouldn't say they have subtext, but in my head there's a lot of potential. I read Yates as gay and, of course, closeted (his flirting with Jo is just a front), and I think his sense of isolation would strike a chord with the exiled Doctor. The Doctor could take comfort in Yates's affection, and the Doctor's arrogance free-spirited unconcern could loosen up Yates's repression.
7. My happily ever after for them
At this stage, I think a happy ending is possible; Delgado!Master isn't as vicious or as crazy as the Master will become later. So if he'd turned up early in Three's exile, they could have run away together (the Master would like defying the Time Lords by freeing the Doctor). The Master might come to find exploring the universe to be more fun than ruling it, especially since the Doctor's kind of travel (land in the middle of a crisis, solve crisis, get applause, leave) is like the fun bits of ruling without the day-to-day responsibility.
thevera asked about Giles/Oz (Buffy the Vampire Slayer).
1. When I started shipping them
When I read Gloss's Book of Daniel.
2. What I think their challenge is
There are so many: the age difference, the Willow/Oz relationship, Giles's job as a watcher, Giles's job as a school employee, Oz's lycanthropy.
3. What makes me happy about them
Obviously I can't point to anything canonical here, apart from Oz's admiration of Giles's record collection! This is what's sometimes called an "alchemy" pairing (I think it was katallison who coined the term) rather than a subtext pairing; writing it is even more than usual about transforming the source material to produce something that wasn't there before.
Having said that: I love their quietness, and how it coexists with hidden wildness and aggression in them both. I love their intelligence, their interest in words (no, Oz doesn't talk much, but when he does he's careful to distinguish between a gathering, a shindig, and a hootenanny), and their joint love of music.
4. What makes me sad about them
That they didn't get to interact much in canon.
5. What moment I wish had never happened
Oz leaving, I guess?
6. Who I'd be comfortable them ending up with, if not each other
Oz/Willow was a good relationship for a long time, although I think it was already turning sour before the incident with Werewolf Girl; something in their dynamic encouraged Willow to be little-girlish and Oz to be, on occasion, patronizing. If that could've been avoided I'd be fine with Oz/Willow.
My other favorite match for Giles is Ethan, but Ethan and Sunnydale are unmixy things. I can't see Giles/Ethan happening successfully until post-"Chosen." I kind of like the idea of Giles and Wesley getting together in the summer after S3 and Wesley staying on in Sunnydale; Wes was already a lot more grown up by then, and under the surface tension he and Giles have a lot of good stuff in common.
7. My happily ever after for them
Post-Chosen, Oz somehow turns up again. (I guess that actually happens in the comics, doesn't it? But I stopped reading the comics ages ago and I don't consider them canon for the show.) Now that Oz is fully an adult and the Oz/Willow relationship is long over, Oz and Giles discover all the ways they're compatible. Merger of record collections ensues. (Oz/Giles is by far the most domestic of my ships. I honestly think they'd cook together and have friends round for dinner and enjoy keeping a pleasant space to live in. I think of them both as people who need a foundation of peace and tranquility, but have had precious little of it; they'd very much embrace domesticity as a refuge from all the dangerous stuff in their lives.)
Crossposted at Dreamwidth; you can comment here or there.
I've done my best to avoid major spoilers for recent or hard-to-find canon (sometimes by making them highlight-to-read), but minor spoilers abound and there may be spoilers in comments.
stunt_muppet asked about Antonio/Sebastian (Twelfth Night)
1. When I started shipping them
The first time I read the play, whenever that was. And then my shippiness was reinforced by Trevor Nunn's film with Nicholas Farrell as Antonio and Steven Mackintosh as Sebastian.
The fact that my love for the pairing has survived having to teach the play to undergraduates shows the level of my devotion.
2. What I think their challenge is
Sebastian agreeing to marry a rich but (he thinks) possibly crazy woman he's never met before.
3. What makes me happy about them
"For three months before / No interim, not a minute's vacancy / Both day and night did we keep company."
Okay, bed-sharing in this time period doesn't necessarily indicate h0t s3xx0rz, but, you know, it helps.
4. What makes me sad about them
Antonio's feelings for Sebastian are perfectly clear--he talks about his adoration to anyone who'll stand still and listen. But whether Sebastian returns those feelings is, to put it mildly, doubtful. Their first scene together is basically Sebastian saying, "No, you can't come with me. No, I'm not going to tell you where I'm going. Please stop asking." He relents a bit, of course, and he seems pleased enough later when Antonio turns up. But there's nevertheless a sense that for Sebastian those three months were a nice fling, whereas Antonio is shopping for curtains.
5. What moment I wish had never happened
A sort of non-moment: we don't know what happens to Antonio. There's a line late in act 5 when he and Sebastian see each other and Sebastian says how much he missed him, and then Antonio disappears from the story. It's especially a problem because Antonio is Orsino's prisoner, accused of piracy, and Orsino has a personal grudge against him because Orsino's nephew lost his leg in battle against Antonio. Some productions have Antonio remain a prisoner, with the guards leading him off (perhaps to execution). More typical is what Trevor Nunn does--Orsino frees Antonio as part of the general spirit of celebration, but Antonio recognizes that there's no role for him in Sebastian's new life, and quietly leaves.
Sadly, there's no way to get from the play text to an ending where they run away together.
6. Who I'd be comfortable them ending up with, if not each other
There's a definite possibility for some shifting around between the two married couples, leading to Sebastian/Orsino and Olivia/Viola. (Orsino's reaction to learning that Cesario is actually Viola--"awesome, let's get married! Olivia who?"--only makes sense if we assume that he was already in love with Cesario. Whether he would love Viola as much is an open question, just like whether Olivia would love Sebastian, who's really a man but not really Cesario.)
I'm tempted to pair Shakespeare's two Antonios. TN Antonio could easily meet Merchant of Venice's Antonio, who has also just been dumped by the young man he loved. Whether it would work long-term is questionable, especially since MoV Antonio seems to have a taste for aristocrats and the upper-class life. But they're the two more-or-less canonical gay men in Shakespeare's plays, and they'd hardly be worse off trying to love each other than loving stupid boys who will leave them.
7. My happily ever after for them
After a few months of married life, Sebastian decides it was a huge mistake and runs away to sea, and to Antonio.
weird_cowgirl asked about Nicholas/Danny (Hot Fuzz)
1. When I started shipping them
Not the first time I saw the movie, actually. My initial reaction to Hot Fuzz was lukewarm, and I read the Nicholas-Danny relationship very differently from how I read it now. At that time I didn't know much about Simon Pegg and Nick Frost's strong real-life friendship, and I assumed that the Nicholas/Danny implications were meant jokingly. I thought that the casting of a fat man as Danny was meant to ensure that the homoerotic subtext wasn't taken seriously (because in most movies/TV shows, fat people's sexuality is portrayed as a joke).
It wasn't until I'd talked about the movie with other folks, and learned more about Simon and Nick, that I realized Hot Fuzz was doing something different and much cooler than "LOL pathetic fat guy has a crush on the hero."
2. What I think their challenge is
By the movie's end they've already gotten past their biggest challenge, which was Nicholas's inability to care more about a person than about his job.
3. What makes me happy about them
Cuddly monkeys! Totally accidental snuggling on the couch! Peace lilies! Life-saving with a packet of ketchup!
4. What makes me sad about them
About them in canon, nothing.
Nicholas/Danny stories about how Nicholas helps Danny lose weight (and therefore, it's implied, become worthy of love) however, make me irate sad. Fortunately there aren't too many of them.
5. What moment I wish had never happened
The bit where they're standing in the rain after the incident at the church fête and Nicholas has a go at Danny. *hugs sad!Danny*
6. Who I'd be comfortable them ending up with, if not each other
They have to end up together, damn it! *is OTP-ish*
Okay, fine, I'll imagine an AU where Danny dies. Nicholas leaves Sandford ASAP, goes back to London . . . and ends up married to his job again, because it was Danny who changed him and I don't think that would outlast Danny's death. He'd probably never let anyone get close to him, emotionally, ever again.
AU in which Nicholas doesn't come back to Sandford. Danny soon runs afoul of the NWA, because he knows now what they really do and he can't just accept that. And bad things happen to Danny. Or, if Frank warns him in time, Danny hightails it for London and Nicholas.
Nope, there's just no universe in which they end up with other people.
7. My happily ever after for them
Cottage, roses, two peace lilies in matching pots, cuddly monkey, occasional high-speed chases through the center of town.
wolkendunst asked about Hornblower/Bush. I'll answer for bookverse, because that's where the most interesting stuff is.
1. When I started shipping them
The conversation between Bush and Lady Barbara in The Happy Return when Bush goes on and on about how awesome Hornblower is. A sample: Bush was not talking of himself, as any sensible man would do under a tropic moon with a young woman beside him.
"Aye, ma'am," he was saying. "He's like Nelson. He's nervous, just as Nelson was, and for the same reason. He's thinking all the time--you'd be surprised, ma'am, to know how much he thinks about."
"I don't think it would surprise me," said Lady Barbara.
"That's because you think, too, ma'am. It's us stupid ones who'd be surprised, I meant to say. He has more brains than all the rest of us in the ship put together, excepting you, ma'am. He's mighty clever, I do assure you."
"I can well believe it."
"And he's the best seaman of us all, and as for navigation--well, Crystal's a fool compared with him, ma'am."
"Yes?"
"Of course, he's short with me sometimes, the same as he is with everyone else, but bless you, ma'am, that's only to be expected. I know how much he has to worry him, and he's not strong, the same as Nelson wasn't strong. I am concerned about him sometimes, ma'am."
"You are fond of him."
"Fond, ma'am?" Bush's sturdy English mind grappled with the word and its sentimental implications, and he laughed a trifle selfconsciously. "If you say so I suppose I must be. I hadn't ever thought of being fond of him before. I like him, ma'am, indeed I do."
2. What I think their challenge is
Mostly the fact that Hornblower is a bottomless pit of neuroses who takes his self-loathing out on anyone who loves him, and is obsessed with seeming to have no emotions and no weaknesses. He treats Bush badly a lot of the time. As the above excerpt demonstrates, Bush knows exactly what's going on and isn't perturbed by it, but it's still a barrier (especially when Hornblower uses his authority to keep Bush at a distance).
Hornblower's fixation on doing his duty, which for him is not well distinguished from following every naval regulation to the letter, is an issue too, because he'd be genuinely reluctant to violate the Articles of War by having sex with a man. The technical definition of sodomy is an available loophole, and I could see Hornblower using it, but he'd nevertheless see it as legalistic quibbling and he'd hate himself for it. (Mind you, he hates himself for everything anyway.) A sexual relationship between him and Bush would, I think, have to take place when they're not at sea, which limits the opportunities a fair bit. But on a happier note, I don't think either man would have any moral objections to male/male sex: Bush is too pragmatic to worry and Hornblower doesn't give a damn about conventional sexual morality.
3. What makes me happy about them
Hand-holding. Stealth cuddles. Hornblower's intensely physical admiration for Bush ("He's so strong! And yet so lithe and agile!"). Bush's protectiveness towards Hornblower and his admiration of Hornblower's courage and intelligence.
Also, the curtainfic is freaking canon.
4. What makes me sad about them
Major spoiler, highlight to read. Bush getting blown to bits at Caudebec. Although Hornblower's reaction (leave the village in ruins! and maybe build a pyramid of skulls!) is a gratifying proof of his love.
5. What moment I wish had never happened
Slight spoiler, highlight to read: Mrs. Mason catching them sneaking into the house at four o'clock in the morning. If that hadn't happened, if they'd actually gone upstairs to bed, everything could have been different.
6. Who I'd be comfortable them ending up with, if not each other
There could be an awesome crossover in which Bush meets Jack Aubrey; they'd get along really well, and Jack has many of Hornblower's good qualities without his coldness and cruel tendencies. The trouble is, Stephen wouldn't like this situation one bit, plus if Stephen and Hornblower met they'd detest each other and probably fight a duel. So Bush/Aubrey would have to occur in an interval when Stephen was ashore and Bush wasn't serving with Hornblower. They could have a nice fling that wouldn't last but would have lots of good sex, mutual respect, and tenderness. And they'd enjoy remembering later.
Bookverse Hornblower is harder to pair off. Of his canonical love interests, Maria and Marie are both doormats, and while I find Lady Barbara a much more interesting character (and I really like her in The Happy Return), I can't forgive her behavior in Lord Hornblower. Maybe Hornblower could get shipwrecked for about a year with Jack Sparrow (*ignores timelines*) until he's loosened up a bit? Or, if I was going to cross over bookverse Hornblower with a TV-verse character, Hornblower/Edrington. Edrington has all that honorable soldierly stuff that turns Hornblower's crank, but he's also got a certain wry cynicism and a suggestion of carnality, both of which would do Hornblower good. (Sorry, Kennedy fans, but I can't see bookverse Hornblower with him. Oh, and I know Edrington is also in bookverse, but he's sort of a cipher there; it's with TV!Edrington that I could see the pairing.)
7. My happily ever after for them
That moment in #5 doesn't happen; h0t s3xx0rz ensue. Bush still becomes Hornblower's lieutenant in the Hotspur, and although Hornblower is at first hugely ashamed/guilty about Article XXIX and tries to avoid further h0t s3xx0rz, that resolution doesn't last once he realizes that he and Bush can have an excellent professional relationship and a personal connection as well. Hornblower never turns into the emotional wreck that he is in The Happy Return and subsequently because the things that made him that way (namely his miserable marriage and then the deaths of his children) don't happen. Not that he's ever the cheeriest and most easygoing person in the world, but he's more stable and more trusting. And because he's not so driven to be a Big Damn Hero, maybe various bad things don't happen.
wolkendunst also asked about Vetinari/Drumknott (Discworld).
1. When I started shipping them
Fairly late in my Discworld reading, actually. I read The Truth (after having finished all the Watch books) and was blown away by the interview scene between Drumknott and William de Worde. Drumknott is so fiercely loyal, so protective of Vetinari, and that's shipper catnip to me.
2. What I think their challenge is
Vetinari's (understandable) disinclination to trust anyone, which is compounded by Vetinari's marked ascetic tendencies.
3. What makes me happy about them
I wrote a whole ship manifesto about it, but in brief: Drumknott's loyalty, the slow but clear growth of Vetinari's trust, the banter and teasing, the mutual respect.
4. What makes me sad about them
Vetinari would be insistent about concealing their personal relationship--perhaps more insistent than was entirely necessary--and I think Drumknott would find that difficult. Also, the age difference means that Drumknott will very likely be bereaved at some point, and he's less equipped to cope with the loss than Vetinari is.
5. What moment I wish had never happened
The way Vetinari talks to Margolotta about Drumknott in Unseen Academicals. There are a bunch of ways to fankwank it, I know, and I support them wholeheartedly. But I still hate that conversation and would gladly wipe it from canon. (Since the multiverse theory is canonical in the Discworld, and Pratchett himself has said "there are no inconsistencies in Discworld, only alternate pasts," I in fact have wiped it from my personal canon. UA is AU to me.)
6. Who I'd be comfortable them ending up with, if not each other
I still like Vetinari/Vimes a lot, although it has plenty of difficulties, both practical and emotional.
There are some folks who ship Drumknott/Moist von Lipwig, but I'm afraid I don't see it. Moist's flamboyance would get on Drumknott's nerves, and Moist canonically finds Drumknott "prim." I think Drumknott/Ponder Stibbons has possibilities, although I don't know when they'd have any time to spend together. Which is a problem for any other Drumknott pairing, actually; Drumknott is secretary to a tireless workaholic and probably doesn't get out of the palace much. He hasn't got time for a relationship, and my head canon for Midwinter!Drumknott is that he's mostly had one-night stands, with a few short flings primarily in his younger years before he became Vetinari's secretary.
7. My happily ever after for them
Pretty much the future I implied in Midwinter--they have a secret but long-term affair that builds on their working relationship. It's not exactly a conventional happily-ever-after due to the secrecy and the whole problem of finding the time (I think they quickly establish a sort of informal schedule in which they spend each Octeday evening and night together, but not, ordinarily, any other night), but it's what Vetinari can give, and Drumknott finds it acceptable.
silver_sandals asked about Three/Delgado!Master (Doctor Who)
1. When I started shipping them
I was, as is typical for me because I tend to get into fandoms after hearing about how boyslashy they are, ready to ship them before I'd even seen them. (And I had seen Ten/Simm!Master already.) The sexy phone call in "Terror of the Autons," so nicely paralleled by the one in "The Sound of Drums" would've convinced me if I'd needed convincing. And Roger Delgado's unexpected hotness and charisma, which doesn't come across well in still photographs but is devastating onscreen, helped.
2. What I think their challenge is
For these two particularly, as opposed to Doctor/Master in general, I'd say the fact that the Doctor has developed friendships on earth by the time the Master starts wooing him. If the Master had turned up right after "Spearhead From Space," I think the Doctor would've been really, really tempted, because he's not happy being stuck on earth and he's angry as hell at the Time Lords.
3. What makes me happy about them
The way they work together, on those mysteriously frequent occasions when they have to. And their "we had a bitter divorce which has not at all decreased our desire to fuck each other senseless" vibe.
4. What makes me sad about them
The moments when there seems to be real, deep enmity, like the Doctor abandoning the Master to die at the end of "The Mind of Evil," and the Master shooting the Doctor in "Frontier in Space."
5. What moment I wish had never happened
As above. Specifically the "Mind of Evil" scene, because the hostility is more disturbing coming from the Doctor, and the shooting in FiS was perhaps not entirely intentional.
6. Who I'd be comfortable them ending up with, if not each other
Three/Jo is a rare non-canonical het ship I'm fond of; their interaction is jokey but tender, and Jo holds her own against the Doctor because she has her own strengths. I also like Three/Mike Yates--I wouldn't say they have subtext, but in my head there's a lot of potential. I read Yates as gay and, of course, closeted (his flirting with Jo is just a front), and I think his sense of isolation would strike a chord with the exiled Doctor. The Doctor could take comfort in Yates's affection, and the Doctor's arrogance free-spirited unconcern could loosen up Yates's repression.
7. My happily ever after for them
At this stage, I think a happy ending is possible; Delgado!Master isn't as vicious or as crazy as the Master will become later. So if he'd turned up early in Three's exile, they could have run away together (the Master would like defying the Time Lords by freeing the Doctor). The Master might come to find exploring the universe to be more fun than ruling it, especially since the Doctor's kind of travel (land in the middle of a crisis, solve crisis, get applause, leave) is like the fun bits of ruling without the day-to-day responsibility.
thevera asked about Giles/Oz (Buffy the Vampire Slayer).
1. When I started shipping them
When I read Gloss's Book of Daniel.
2. What I think their challenge is
There are so many: the age difference, the Willow/Oz relationship, Giles's job as a watcher, Giles's job as a school employee, Oz's lycanthropy.
3. What makes me happy about them
Obviously I can't point to anything canonical here, apart from Oz's admiration of Giles's record collection! This is what's sometimes called an "alchemy" pairing (I think it was katallison who coined the term) rather than a subtext pairing; writing it is even more than usual about transforming the source material to produce something that wasn't there before.
Having said that: I love their quietness, and how it coexists with hidden wildness and aggression in them both. I love their intelligence, their interest in words (no, Oz doesn't talk much, but when he does he's careful to distinguish between a gathering, a shindig, and a hootenanny), and their joint love of music.
4. What makes me sad about them
That they didn't get to interact much in canon.
5. What moment I wish had never happened
Oz leaving, I guess?
6. Who I'd be comfortable them ending up with, if not each other
Oz/Willow was a good relationship for a long time, although I think it was already turning sour before the incident with Werewolf Girl; something in their dynamic encouraged Willow to be little-girlish and Oz to be, on occasion, patronizing. If that could've been avoided I'd be fine with Oz/Willow.
My other favorite match for Giles is Ethan, but Ethan and Sunnydale are unmixy things. I can't see Giles/Ethan happening successfully until post-"Chosen." I kind of like the idea of Giles and Wesley getting together in the summer after S3 and Wesley staying on in Sunnydale; Wes was already a lot more grown up by then, and under the surface tension he and Giles have a lot of good stuff in common.
7. My happily ever after for them
Post-Chosen, Oz somehow turns up again. (I guess that actually happens in the comics, doesn't it? But I stopped reading the comics ages ago and I don't consider them canon for the show.) Now that Oz is fully an adult and the Oz/Willow relationship is long over, Oz and Giles discover all the ways they're compatible. Merger of record collections ensues. (Oz/Giles is by far the most domestic of my ships. I honestly think they'd cook together and have friends round for dinner and enjoy keeping a pleasant space to live in. I think of them both as people who need a foundation of peace and tranquility, but have had precious little of it; they'd very much embrace domesticity as a refuge from all the dangerous stuff in their lives.)
Crossposted at Dreamwidth; you can comment here or there.