memeishness

[kindkit]

Here are my answers to this meme. Some of these contain plot spoilers, most significantly for the Discworld novel Jingo.

For lilacsigil:

Comments

[van]

I like your Jamie ideas, though I like to believe he and the Doctor got together prior to Zoe, if just because I want them to have more time together! Though I do like the idea they were bestest of best friends for a long while first, too.

Where ever did you come up with point three? I like it a lot, I just never would have thought of it myself.

[kindkit]

Which bit? Scots prisoners taken at Culloden (there weren't that many, as they tended to be summarily executed) were often transported to the Caribbean to be indentured labor on the plantations, so that's historical. So's typhus, which was widespread in prisons and anywhere else overcrowded and unsanity. So it seems like the mostly likely fate for Jamie. It's hard to believe he could have gotten away, and I choose not to believe that he was killed. Well, unless I were, for some reason, not believing that season 6b happened and the Doctor came back for him. In that case, it would have been better for him to be killed outright.

All three of the "facts" are only my personal canon in a very limited sense. I tend not to have much personal canon that I absolutely believe is What Happened, because that makes it harder to write different stories.

[kiwisue]

Thanks for your 3 - I've always felt a pang every time I remember that Jamie'd been sent back to that killing ground.

Wasn't sure what your CIA meant though?

[kindkit]

The Celestial Intervention Agency. Mentions of them in some Doctor Who episodes (especially "The Deadly Assassin" and "The Two Doctors") seem to imply that the Second Doctor wasn't forced to regenerate right after "The War Games," but instead was recruited by the CIA, which allowed him to go back for Jamie (this because Jamie's with him in "The Two Doctors" and knows who the CIA and the Time Lords are, which he didn't know pre-"The War Games"). Fans call this period "season 6b" and there are a lot of complications in terms of timeline, but it's accepted enough that a number of official Doctor Who novels use it as a premise.

[vilakins]

Sam Vimes looked a lot more upset than either of them would have expected.

Actually, I would. :-) Those are great.

BTW I have three Discworld icons; the other pics I scanned didn't reduce well to icon size. I didn't get round to posting them because three seems so paltry, but here they are if you fancy any.

[kindkit]

Oh, any outside observer would. Even Carrot thinks Vimes has a soft spot for Vetinari. Only Vimes doesn't know. I think Vetinari knows Vimes doesn't actually hate him, and he's aware of his own fondness for Vimes, but I think Vetinari's too cautious to believe Vimes actually has affection for him.

Thanks for the icons offer--I think you should post them. I'm not all that much a fan of the official Discworld art, I'm afraid. It's just not how I see the characters; Vimes especially, since Paul Kidby apparently decided he looks like Clint Eastwood. I know that there's a Dirty Harry parody in Guards! Guards!, but it's a parody, and I can't imagine anyone less Dirty Harry-like than Vimes.

[vilakins]

I agree; Vimes and Vetinari has a great deal of respect for each other, and an affection they would never admit even to themselves, but which shows in their actions. Not for nothing are they my favourite characters.

I saw the drawings after I formed my opinions of what they looked like, and I like these ones because they're pretty close. Of course that's early Vimes, but I can imagine him being unshaven abd a bit slouchy even in his ducal rig, and he was through Polly's eyes. I didn't see Clint Eastwood there; just Vimes. I know Paul Darrow okayed him on stage, and I really don't like the casting choices they've made for TV--so much so that I didn't watch.

I loathe the original cartoon style--all monstrosity and heaving exposed boobs--and for years I wouldn't read Discworld because I judged the books by their covers. :-P

I forgot; I also did a Death on Binky. I'll post them when I get round to the TOS ones. Having to scan the bastards in make me keep putting it off.

[julia_here]

(It struck me about two-thirds of the way through that Jingo is the longest most elaborate fart joke ever written.)

[kindkit]

*grins*

[heliophile_oxon]

I suppose that at age 5 even Vetinari wasn't up to speed yet! Hmm, all the ways he didn't - couldn't possibly - meet his end .... and now you continue to whet my appetite for more about the fascinating and complicated Vimes-Vetinari relationship. Every time either of them smells the scent of lilac, it must make them think not only of the events of Night Watch but of each other. Events of what magnitude would it take to make Vimes see, I wonder!? Vetinari knows, because he knows pretty much everything, but he takes self-discipline to extremes beyond the grasp of mere mortals *g* and prefers not to expose Vimes to unnecessary ordeals anyway (the ordeal of facing his own profoundly repressed feelings, I mean, not to mention the guilt he would feel about Sybil and Young Sam whom he loves so much in different ways). Necessary dangers are another matter, of course! V&V almost need to be whisked out of their own place and time for a while, by forces beyond their control. In their different ways they're both so good at dealing with the

[kindkit]

I think Vimes is so invested in his image of himself as a plain, simple man who's completely ordinary in every way that it would take a lot to make him rethinking his own sexuality. He's clearly never thought of not-straightness as an option for himself (there's a bit in one of the books that talks about it, about Vimes basically understanding sex as another instance where you do what you're supposed to do and being puzzled by people who take a "pick and mix" approach). He's baffled by Nobby's dresses and by the love story of Bloodaxe and Ironhammer (where he really really wants to know which one of them was female and is deeply uncomfortable at the possibility that neither of them was, or [I don't know if this even occurred to him] they both were).

And Vimes can't even bring himself to acknowledge that he thinks Vetinari is a good ruler, even though his reaction to having to arrest him in Jingo shows that he really does. Plus, as you said, there's Sybil and Young Sam

[kiwisue]

I really like your take on Nico - I'm a sucker for "what might have been" anyway, but these are terrific. 1 is very moving, because we know what did happen, and what Nico would have lost if he hadn't become a pointsman. 2,3 & 4 are likewise very possible "different roads". But 5 had me grinning madly - and wanting more 'Points' stories, now.

[kindkit]

Thanks!

I do think Nico is genuinely happy in his other life in #1; he's just not quite the Nico we know, because his experiences have been so different.