Love, Hate and Feminism vs. Misogyny

[kimberly_t]

After due consideration, I am convinced that the two most overused, misused and abused words in the entire English language are: Love and Hate.

Comments

[mediumdave]

Hello Kimberly, I'm here via ginmar's LJ... yours is an interesting argument, and I agree that more precise language when we're discussing sociopolitical ideas would be useful.

But in reference to that post at "Not a Feminist", I believe that Laura was using the word "hate" for the sake of symmetry, and if she'd used "despise" instead, it would've made for a weaker post because the effect of turning the word "hate" back on the real haters would have been lost.

Plus, if she'd used the word "despise" it would have reminded the MRA trolls of the very truth that they're trying desperately to deny. The whole basis of the MRA movement is the pretense that men and women are already equal, so feminism is unnecessary. A reminder that men, in general, look down on women would've made them howl even more loudly. If that's possible.

[kimberly_t]

Greetings, Dave! Feel free to take a look around and comment on other issues.
I agree, Laura appeared to be using the word "hate" for the sake of symmetry. But "hate" almost implies a symmetrical relationship, detesting someone even while recognizing them as an equal or a serious threat... and the patriarchal society is anything but symmetrical in terms of power between the genders. When most people define "hate" as actively detesting someone, with the implication that the other is an equal or a serious threat, the word just does not fit most of the examples she gave in that essay.

I honestly think that this is one reason why so many modern women now denounce feminism as being outdated, past its usefulness; they hear "men hate women", think of the word "hate" as it's commonly used and just don't see it happening in the world around them. Oh, they see women being treated as sex objects, but that's not hate, that's just guys being insensitive! And so they agree with the MRA's who describe the active feminist as "man-haters,"

[mediumdave]

It occurs to me that there's a way to test your idea... if you write a condensed version of your post, using the terms you feel are appropriate, and insert it into a comments thread at a high-traffic blog (at an oppportune moment), you could see how people react.

[kimberly_t]

Well, I suppose I could trim down the section on "Love" a little...
Any particular high-traffic blog you'd recommend? The most high-traffic site I ever go to is ginmar's LJ, and I'm not about to hijack that even if I knew how.

[mediumdave]

Obviously I've given this long, serious thought. Yep.

There are a fair number of feminist blogs that get a lot of traffic such as Pandagon, Feministe, etc. There are more radical ones such as Den of the Biting Beaver and I Blame the Patriarchy, also. It depends on where you would feel (reasonably) comfortable.

However, the thread at "Not a Feminist, but" is still going; if you have an issue with the terms used by that blogger, if not the underlying sentiments, that might be an appropriate place to bring it up. And it doesn't sound like the kind of place where someone would jump down your throat for not being appropriately "radical".

That being said, ginmar's critics would have people believe that that's the kind of thing that happens regularly in her journal. And I just don't see it. What has your experience been?

[kimberly_t]

I appreciate the recommendations. I've heard them mentioned in ginmar's LJ, and even visted the Biting Beaver once, but wasn't aware that one could make a full post there instead of just commenting on the main blogger's post

[kimberly_t]

Well, I finally posted it at the "Not a Feminist, but" blog, but it looks like that party is over, and I came in just as the caterers were cleaning up. I ultimately left the whole piece intact, and even added a paragraph (which I subsequently added here) that tied the typical misgynist's protest "But I love women!" back to the many different ways that "love" is misused. But I doubt I'll get much of a reply over there, not when the last comment was two days ago.

Next step, I guess, would be to leave a comment on the Biting Beaver's Blog asking her to take a look at this entry, and see if she's agreeable to letting me guest-post or something.

[mediumdave]

Oops, I forgot to ask you not to mention where you got the idea. ;)

But seriously, I read the new comments at "Not a Feminist" and apparently a new crop of trolls pretty much stole your thunder. Which is what trolls are for, I guess. No wonder feminists get angry; there's this parade of morons who try to shout them down every time they try to make a point in a public forum.

[kimberly_t]

Sorry, hope my mention didn't cause any trolls to attack you! Though none have showed up on my LJ yet, so I think you're safe in that regard. Actually, so far there hasn't been even one comment about my essay in any way on that blog, neither positive nor negative. I wasn't expecting to be just ignored... Oh well, I admit most of what I wrote was pretty dry reading.

[mediumdave]

Totally kidding about the "don't tell anyone" thing. I've never actually had a troll on my LJ; I'd almost welcome one because my troll-smacking skills are getting rusty. The one time someone was deeply offended by something I said (it was actually in a comment in a friend's journal) he was too much of a little sniveler to say anything to me directly... instead he whined about it in his own blog, figuring I'd read it. Which I did, laughing the whole time.

Anyway. I look forward to reading more of your entries.