Hi! I'm one of those vile Obama supporters you were talking about :), but I also have a genuine desire to understand why conservatives are so crushed at his election. You said the biggest things you were concerned about were health care, being attacked by one of the terrorist groups who were praying for Obama's election, and that Obama might pack the court with liberal justices.
As I understand it, under Obama's health care plan, you can keep your existing insurance if you want-it's just that your premiums will, in all likelihood, be lower. Obama's plan is a hybrid plan, distinct from the Hillary Clinton model of completely nationalized health care services. Only people who have no insurance or find coverage options insufficient/ unaffordable will sign up for state-provided health care. You can certainly debate whether our taxes should go toward keeping these people healthy, but I see this 'sacrifice' as one of the most proactive ways to keep America economically productive and competitive. The more access our citizens have to decent baseline health services, the more burgeoning health issues can be averted before they get much worse-which should translate into fewer sick days taken, more people in the work force for longer periods of time, and fewer government resources funneled into expensive, last-ditch emergency care. (Thousands of poor families use the local hospital emergency room as the family doctor because they have no other option. Guess who ends up paying for that?) Should we be our brothers' and sisters' keepers in this regard? I say yes.
Re. the terrorist thing, it goes both ways, since Al-Qaeda actually endorsed McCain on one of its web sites: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/21/AR2008102102477_pf.html. And the philosophical composition of the Supreme Court seems unlikely to change much in the next four years. The judges most likely to leave or retire are John Paul Stevens, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, and David Souter, and they're all pretty liberal anyway, so replacing one of them with another liberal would keep the balance more or less the same.
Sorry for the lengthy screed, and I hope you will be able to find some peace with the way the election has gone. Who knows, the results might not end up being as bad as you think. (But I feel your pain. I felt the same way the last two presidential elections!)
Heya--I'm also one of those Obama supporters. I'm not going to defend him, but leave you a word of encouragement, which I know you know: GOD is in control. There is nothing in this election that He did not plan or foresee. His desire is not for us to build Heaven on earth, but to rescue people out of what He promises will become an increasingly corrupt and vile place to live. Jesus, yes, Jesus has the only true message of hope, He will return, and even so Lord Jesus, come quickly!
Ah, but you have never been vile, IMO. =o) Like I said to the person above, I have never said Obama supporters were vile.
I'm not a Calvinist, so I don't necessarily believe that God planned this. He certainly knew it would happen and absolutely could have prevented it (and very well could have done it, though unlikely), but I don't think He often directly intervenes in our world today. IMO it's like when a hurricane comes. People will say, "God is in control," but that doesn't mean God caused it. Rather, hurricanes IMO are a result of the fall of man. Likewise, so is the majority of citizens of a country electing a man who so clearly does not follow God's Word. No one can tell me that God wanted a man with such a dismal record on the sanctity of human life in power, unless He put Obama in power to teach us a lesson, as He did with Saul and the Israelites. But that doesn't mean it's the end of the world or that our country will end up like Sodom & Gomorrah.
Since I'm not a Calvinist I'm also not a huge Piper fan. I agree with what he said in that video, and I'm sorry if I've come across like I think the world is ending because Obama was elected, because I don't feel that way. I was rather devastated yesterday, 'tis true, but that was more disbelief that someone so inexperienced and so completely left-wing could actually win the highest office in our country than thinking the world was going to end. To be honest, I still am in a state of denial that people could so blindly follow a man like Obama. This is when I really wish people realized there're more than 2 parties, because, dude, there were so many better people running than Obama! But people thought the candidate they actually agreed with couldn't win. Sadly, they were right, but it still sucks.
I have never said Obama supporters were vile. I have said that most are deceived and many of them (anyone who voted for him because of his ethnicity or because it's cool or because they think he'll fix all their problems) are stupid, but I only know one Obama fan that I would call vile. He's a jerk anyway; he's just been made a bigger one by supporting Obama.
Regarding terrorism, Al Qaeda seems to be changing their strategy since they endorsed John Kerry in 2004 and he lost. They do seem to be experts at propaganda, so I wouldn't put too much weight on who they claim to endorse.
Aside from not being something the government is allowed to do according to the constitution in sections 8 and 9 (the enumerated powers), Obama's health care plan is basically designed to put more people on business and federal insurance plans. You are penalized for not having insurance and for not providing it to employees. Businesses will provide more insurance to employees to avoid the fines, and more families will seek government insurance to avoid fines. And judging from Democrat attempts to expand SCHIP to rich kids, I don't think only the poor will have access to government programs.
What's the problem with that? Let's start with business insurance plans. They tend to cost twice as much as personal plans, cover you for things you don't need (covering my husband for pregnancy and me for testicular cancer, etc.), and provide no portability (you can't take it with you if you quit). McCain's plan would have encouraged more people to get personal health insurance. Obama's plan basically forces businesses (even those who can't afford it) to get business plans. This will drive up unemployment because now not only is the employer matching FICA taxes and paying unemployment taxes on the state and federal level for each employee, plus worker's comp and other insurances, now they have to provide health insurance or be fined. Unemployment rates will likely shoot up.
As for government insurance - well, I think we have covered that pretty well so far. Yes, there are some advantages to forcing people to be insured so that we spend less on emergency care and more on free checkups for a kid who coughs three times in a row, but I think there are more advantages to making sure that families can afford their own private insurance and making sure that people have opportunity to work and advance themselves. I do think that insurance should be provided for those who absolutely cannot afford it (those who don't smoke, don't have cable or a second car, etc. and still can't afford it), but it should be on a state or local level, not on a federal level where people are dropped through the cracks and lost in the process and it lends itself to greater fraud.
Finally, regarding justices, Obama might replace a bunch of liberal judges with other liberal judges, but these are lifetime appointments. If he replaces them with young socialist judges who view the constitution as a "breathing document" (which translates as "more actual guidelines"), those judges will be on the bench for much longer than Alito or Scalia. Also, Obama won't just be putting supreme court judges on the bench; he will be filling tons of lower courts which are in emergency state because Democrats reneged on their promise to give Bush's appointments an up or down vote.
I'm going to try to give Obama the benefit of the doubt. I am upset that he won, but I know it's not the end of the world. If in four years our economy is better than it was two years ago (when we got a liberal Congress - a.k.a. the beginning of our current downward spiral), we are safer, there are fewer abortions, our government is closer to the Constitution, state marriage laws haven't been overturned, we are less racially and politically divided, taxes are lower and spending is lower, then I will eat all of my words quite happily and may even ask for seconds. =o)
So I'm curious - how'd you find me? I don't recognize your username. Your icon is very pretty. Is that you? If so, you remind me of Eliza Dushku. =o)
Sorry for replying so late--life has gotten in the way this week!
“Making sure families can afford their own private insurance”--that's the crux of the problem, I think. A report issued by the CDC last year concluded that 40 million people in the United States can't afford health care: http://www.reuters.com/article/healthNews/idUSN0343703420071203. So if we're depending on the free market to provide adequate health care options, that strategy has failed, and failed drastically. According to a report by the independent Commonwealth Fund, Obama's strategy is far more likely than McCain's to achieve the desired result of expanding coverage-the writers estimate it will extend coverage to 34 million Americans, while McCain's plan would only have covered an additional 2 million. And I'm curious why you think people are more likely to be dropped through the cracks of a system that functions on the federal level, rather than on the state or local level. I guess it could be true, but I haven't yet come across any data that supports that.
While Obama has yet to reveal the nitty-gritty details of how much businesses will be required to contribute to their employees' health coverage, he's indicated that small, Joe-the-Plumber style businesses will be exempt from providing mandatory coverage (http://www.forbes.com/health/2008/11/05/obama-healthcare-plan-forbeslife-cx_rr_1105health.html). I think it's too early to panic until we learn all the specifics-especially since, in this financial climate, Obama will be wary of taking steps analysts tell him are likely to drag down the economy in a significant way. I don't think he's dumb enough to do anything that would truly make unemployment “shoot up.”
You're right about the packing of the lower courts with liberal justices-I'm sure that will happen. Being a liberal, I'm not convinced that's such a bad thing, but I can see how those of different political persuasion might feel otherwise. Do you have fears about specific kinds of legislation that will be passed or overturned by these newly constituted courts?
“If in four years our economy is better than it was two years ago (when we got a liberal Congress - a.k.a. the beginning of our current downward spiral), we are safer, there are fewer abortions, our government is closer to the Constitution, state marriage laws haven't been overturned, we are less racially and politically divided, taxes are lower and spending is lower, then I will eat all of my words quite happily and may even ask for seconds. =o)” --> Let's just say we disagree about state marriage laws, but I'd rather not go there right now; this post is long enough as it is! Amen to all of the other points. While I am pro-choice, I would love to see fewer abortions in this country. I don't think that's a contradiction in terms.
That icon is, in fact, me, but I assure you I look nothing like Eliza Dushku in real life. Without blush, I'm as pale as Morticia Addams (but I work from home most days, so I can get away with it!).
I think I found you on a friend's friend's list, or something to that effect, and I've enjoyed reading your public entries. Would you mind adding me as a friend? I promise not to be too combative. :)
As I understand it, under Obama's health care plan, you can keep your existing insurance if you want-it's just that your premiums will, in all likelihood, be lower. Obama's plan is a hybrid plan, distinct from the Hillary Clinton model of completely nationalized health care services. Only people who have no insurance or find coverage options insufficient/ unaffordable will sign up for state-provided health care. You can certainly debate whether our taxes should go toward keeping these people healthy, but I see this 'sacrifice' as one of the most proactive ways to keep America economically productive and competitive. The more access our citizens have to decent baseline health services, the more burgeoning health issues can be averted before they get much worse-which should translate into fewer sick days taken, more people in the work force for longer periods of time, and fewer government resources funneled into expensive, last-ditch emergency care. (Thousands of poor families use the local hospital emergency room as the family doctor because they have no other option. Guess who ends up paying for that?) Should we be our brothers' and sisters' keepers in this regard? I say yes.
Re. the terrorist thing, it goes both ways, since Al-Qaeda actually endorsed McCain on one of its web sites: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/21/AR2008102102477_pf.html. And the philosophical composition of the Supreme Court seems unlikely to change much in the next four years. The judges most likely to leave or retire are John Paul Stevens, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, and David Souter, and they're all pretty liberal anyway, so replacing one of them with another liberal would keep the balance more or less the same.
Sorry for the lengthy screed, and I hope you will be able to find some peace with the way the election has gone. Who knows, the results might not end up being as bad as you think. (But I feel your pain. I felt the same way the last two presidential elections!)
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This video by John Piper is terrific: http://www.desiringgod.org/Blog/1473_Thoughts_on_Voting_and_Politics/
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I'm not a Calvinist, so I don't necessarily believe that God planned this. He certainly knew it would happen and absolutely could have prevented it (and very well could have done it, though unlikely), but I don't think He often directly intervenes in our world today. IMO it's like when a hurricane comes. People will say, "God is in control," but that doesn't mean God caused it. Rather, hurricanes IMO are a result of the fall of man. Likewise, so is the majority of citizens of a country electing a man who so clearly does not follow God's Word. No one can tell me that God wanted a man with such a dismal record on the sanctity of human life in power, unless He put Obama in power to teach us a lesson, as He did with Saul and the Israelites. But that doesn't mean it's the end of the world or that our country will end up like Sodom & Gomorrah.
Since I'm not a Calvinist I'm also not a huge Piper fan. I agree with what he said in that video, and I'm sorry if I've come across like I think the world is ending because Obama was elected, because I don't feel that way. I was rather devastated yesterday, 'tis true, but that was more disbelief that someone so inexperienced and so completely left-wing could actually win the highest office in our country than thinking the world was going to end. To be honest, I still am in a state of denial that people could so blindly follow a man like Obama. This is when I really wish people realized there're more than 2 parties, because, dude, there were so many better people running than Obama! But people thought the candidate they actually agreed with couldn't win. Sadly, they were right, but it still sucks.
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Regarding terrorism, Al Qaeda seems to be changing their strategy since they endorsed John Kerry in 2004 and he lost. They do seem to be experts at propaganda, so I wouldn't put too much weight on who they claim to endorse.
Aside from not being something the government is allowed to do according to the constitution in sections 8 and 9 (the enumerated powers), Obama's health care plan is basically designed to put more people on business and federal insurance plans. You are penalized for not having insurance and for not providing it to employees. Businesses will provide more insurance to employees to avoid the fines, and more families will seek government insurance to avoid fines. And judging from Democrat attempts to expand SCHIP to rich kids, I don't think only the poor will have access to government programs.
What's the problem with that? Let's start with business insurance plans. They tend to cost twice as much as personal plans, cover you for things you don't need (covering my husband for pregnancy and me for testicular cancer, etc.), and provide no portability (you can't take it with you if you quit). McCain's plan would have encouraged more people to get personal health insurance. Obama's plan basically forces businesses (even those who can't afford it) to get business plans. This will drive up unemployment because now not only is the employer matching FICA taxes and paying unemployment taxes on the state and federal level for each employee, plus worker's comp and other insurances, now they have to provide health insurance or be fined. Unemployment rates will likely shoot up.
As for government insurance - well, I think we have covered that pretty well so far. Yes, there are some advantages to forcing people to be insured so that we spend less on emergency care and more on free checkups for a kid who coughs three times in a row, but I think there are more advantages to making sure that families can afford their own private insurance and making sure that people have opportunity to work and advance themselves. I do think that insurance should be provided for those who absolutely cannot afford it (those who don't smoke, don't have cable or a second car, etc. and still can't afford it), but it should be on a state or local level, not on a federal level where people are dropped through the cracks and lost in the process and it lends itself to greater fraud.
Finally, regarding justices, Obama might replace a bunch of liberal judges with other liberal judges, but these are lifetime appointments. If he replaces them with young socialist judges who view the constitution as a "breathing document" (which translates as "more actual guidelines"), those judges will be on the bench for much longer than Alito or Scalia. Also, Obama won't just be putting supreme court judges on the bench; he will be filling tons of lower courts which are in emergency state because Democrats reneged on their promise to give Bush's appointments an up or down vote.
I'm going to try to give Obama the benefit of the doubt. I am upset that he won, but I know it's not the end of the world. If in four years our economy is better than it was two years ago (when we got a liberal Congress - a.k.a. the beginning of our current downward spiral), we are safer, there are fewer abortions, our government is closer to the Constitution, state marriage laws haven't been overturned, we are less racially and politically divided, taxes are lower and spending is lower, then I will eat all of my words quite happily and may even ask for seconds. =o)
So I'm curious - how'd you find me? I don't recognize your username. Your icon is very pretty. Is that you? If so, you remind me of Eliza Dushku. =o)
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(The comment has been removed)
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“Making sure families can afford their own private insurance”--that's the crux of the problem, I think. A report issued by the CDC last year concluded that 40 million people in the United States can't afford health care: http://www.reuters.com/article/healthNews/idUSN0343703420071203. So if we're depending on the free market to provide adequate health care options, that strategy has failed, and failed drastically. According to a report by the independent Commonwealth Fund, Obama's strategy is far more likely than McCain's to achieve the desired result of expanding coverage-the writers estimate it will extend coverage to 34 million Americans, while McCain's plan would only have covered an additional 2 million. And I'm curious why you think people are more likely to be dropped through the cracks of a system that functions on the federal level, rather than on the state or local level. I guess it could be true, but I haven't yet come across any data that supports that.
While Obama has yet to reveal the nitty-gritty details of how much businesses will be required to contribute to their employees' health coverage, he's indicated that small, Joe-the-Plumber style businesses will be exempt from providing mandatory coverage (http://www.forbes.com/health/2008/11/05/obama-healthcare-plan-forbeslife-cx_rr_1105health.html). I think it's too early to panic until we learn all the specifics-especially since, in this financial climate, Obama will be wary of taking steps analysts tell him are likely to drag down the economy in a significant way. I don't think he's dumb enough to do anything that would truly make unemployment “shoot up.”
You're right about the packing of the lower courts with liberal justices-I'm sure that will happen. Being a liberal, I'm not convinced that's such a bad thing, but I can see how those of different political persuasion might feel otherwise. Do you have fears about specific kinds of legislation that will be passed or overturned by these newly constituted courts?
“If in four years our economy is better than it was two years ago (when we got a liberal Congress - a.k.a. the beginning of our current downward spiral), we are safer, there are fewer abortions, our government is closer to the Constitution, state marriage laws haven't been overturned, we are less racially and politically divided, taxes are lower and spending is lower, then I will eat all of my words quite happily and may even ask for seconds. =o)” --> Let's just say we disagree about state marriage laws, but I'd rather not go there right now; this post is long enough as it is! Amen to all of the other points. While I am pro-choice, I would love to see fewer abortions in this country. I don't think that's a contradiction in terms.
That icon is, in fact, me, but I assure you I look nothing like Eliza Dushku in real life. Without blush, I'm as pale as Morticia Addams (but I work from home most days, so I can get away with it!).
I think I found you on a friend's friend's list, or something to that effect, and I've enjoyed reading your public entries. Would you mind adding me as a friend? I promise not to be too combative. :)
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