some shit going down in my home town

[kho]

The morning after it was announced that Osama Bin Laden was killed the flag that flew over the War Memorial on LSU campus was taken down and burned by someone. A few days later the 23 year old student who did it turned himself in. In a later article it is said that there was $7,530 worth of damage at the memorial.

Comments

well....

[minaloush]

wait - i don't think it goes without saying it was about osama. i think it easily could have been about the reaction to the news about osama much more than anything else - i was pretty squicked by that as well.

I don't know why you're so anti-discussion of the whys and wherefores of the wars we are in - i don't think that inherently leads to soldier-bashing - you can be very against the wars and not against soldiers. i know, because that's where i philosophically reside.

This response to flag-burning is so baffling to me. i think people take symbolism far too literally and need to remember that it is, ultimately, just fabric.

Having seen American recently, I'm going to go with Bill Hicks here -

Did you watch the flag burning thing? Wasn't that great man? Boy everybody showed their true colours then didn't they?....Scary... People just flipped, they reacted like The Supreme Court approved of flag burning, know what I mean?

" Does that mean we have to burn our flags?.. They said that we ha-"... NO NO NO NO NO NO, they didn't say that. They said that if someone wanted to burn a flag, he perhaps doesn't need to go to jail for a year...Pretty harsh on their part huh?

"They said we should bur-".... They didn't say that, they didn't say that, they didn't say that

"Does that mean I have to go and -"....NO NO NO NO NO NO NO... Listen, read , think, calm down, relax, SHUT THE FUCK UP

"Well I don't get it..I don't wanna burn my flag"....THEN DOOOOOOOOOOON'T.

People snapped, they were like "Hey buddy, my dad died for that flag"

"Really?...I bought mine...They sell 'em in K-Mart..."

"yeah..He died in Korea for that flag"

"Wow, what a coincidence. Mine was made in Korea... the world is THAT big man..."

No-one, and I repeat NO-ONE has ever died for a flag. A flag is a piece of cloth, they might have died for freedom, which, by the way, is the freedom to....Burn the.. fucking flag you see??..Burning the flag doesn't make freedom go away, it's kinda like Free-dom ok?..ok.

And they've had 4 cases in this country's 200 year history, so it's not that big an issue. One of the hotter smokescreens they've put down the pipe. I don't wanna burn a flag, but what business is it of mine if you do?

Is it my business if someone wants to..Is it?...NO

Is it my business what other people read or watch on TV? NO IT'S NOT...THANK YOU

You see, when we talk these things through, it becomes a little clearer doesn't it? That's called logic and it'll help us all evolve and get on the fucking spaceships and get outta here.

Re: well....

[kho]

My thing about not wanting to address the war and the situation is that I'm kind of talked out about it. I've had that debate. It's murky and not at all clear and/or spelled out, and there's the whole "do the ends justify the means" and blah blah blah.

To be put simply, I do not think we went to war to free the Iraqi's from Saddam as it was said that we did... I also don't think we went to war over oil. I also don't think we went to war because Iraq may have weapons of mass destruction because if that were the reason we would have gone to war with Korea (sorry, I don't remember if it's S. or N. Korea that has the nuclear bomb right now and I don't feel like looking it up) I think we went to war for all of those reasons, and a whole bunch of other ones.

Do I think I'm smart enough to know whether or not the war is justified in the end? No, I don't. I also don't think most people ARE, as they are not the president and they are not the head of the CIA and the FBI and homeland security, they don't hear the chatter, they don't know the facts, etc etc etc. Nor do I neccessarily think the President himself, neither Bush nor Obama, is smart enough that they should be making that decision. I don't know that anyone besides God himself is.

However. We were attacked. We couldn't do nothing. All I am certain of is that I do think the initial decision to go to war was correct and justified. If you're hit, hit back harder so they think twice about hitting you again, that's schoolyard mentality applied in large scale. As far as subsequent decisions, I don't know. I don't pretend to know. I think most of the opinions shared online are far too jaded or far too ignorant. I just don't think I can pass proper judgement on Iraq/etc/whether or not we should still be there/whether or not we should move out by July/whether or not we should move on to Pakistan next/etc. I don't know.

That being said, I'm incredibly glad and elated that Osama is dead. I apologize if my feeling that way offends you, but I don't apologize for feeling that way. I have too many relatives in the NYPD and the FDNY and too many relatives fighting in the war right now to think that finally finding and toasting Osama isn't a big symbol of "it wasn't for nothing, we got the fucker."

Re: well....

[kho]

As far as flag burning.... To a degree, technically, you're correct. No one died for the flag, as technically, it's just a flag, I bought it at Walmart, whatever. However, symbolically, you couldn't be more wrong, because the soldiers every day wear that flag on their shoulder as a reminder of what they're fighting for, their friends and family back home.

"This flag, which we honor and under which we serve, is the emblem of our unity, our power, our thought and purpose as a nation. It has no other character than that which we give it from generation to generation. The choices are ours. It floats in majestic silence above the hosts that execute those choices, whether in peace or in war. And yet, though silent, it speaks to us - speaks to us of the past, or the men and women who went before us, and of the records they wrote upon it."
-Woodrow Wilson

You may not think symbolism means anything, but look at that video again and you'll see that plenty of people DO believe in symbolism. That symbolic flag was burned as a symbolic fuck you to America, whether it was about the US killing Osama or about the US's reaction to Osama being killed.

And so Louisiana reacted to that sentiment with anger and retorted... peacefully. There was no pushing and shoving and fist fights (again, as far as I know), there was only shouting and throwing of water balloons. Personally I'm proud of that fact.

Lybians raised up to protest their government and their government bombed them. This guy wanted to protest our goverment and burn our flag and we yelled, threw water balloons, and he was escorted out by the cops who were there to protect HIM.

As far as me equating the debating of the wars with soldier bashing, I have found over the years that the people who argue about the evils of war tend to belittle the soldiers. Hate the war, not the soldier... that sentiment is rarely adhered to in online discussions and online discussions tend to get overly-heated as you don't have to come face to face with anyone, it's "online anonymous."