Oathkeeper

[kem_viva]

Loyalty

“ The tall girl knelt awkwardly, unsheathed Renly’s longsword, and laid it at her feet. “Then I am yours, my lady. Your liege man, or… whatever you would have me be.  I will shield your back and keep your counsel and give my life for yours, if need be. I swear it by the old gods and the new.””
-Catelyn VI, A Clash of Kings

Comments

[alexandral]

You see, I rely on the recent management course I had. Apparently it is known that having "good qualities" when leading business is beneficial to the business itself. With the power brokers the ones that are interested in gain only do not last all that long and don't build powerful empires, they just tend to destroy things. People who do build powerful empires are quite often people of high integrity. It is known.

The thing with Ned, of course, is that to his good qualities he also had inflexibility and the lack of good understanding of people and lack of quick thinking (which usually is one of the necessary qualities of successful people of power).

It is interesting, however, that in Martin-verse "integrity" and "quick thinking and knowledge of people" don't seem to happen in the same time in the same person. Why? I don't know. But I think this actually makes his books not 100% realistic view of reality (instead, they are grim view of reality) because I do believe that in RL we do have plenty of examples of people where both sets of qualities are present and some these people literally changed the course of history. Tyrion seemed to posses both qualities , but who knows what is happening to him now?

[geeklee]

With the power brokers the ones that are interested in gain only do not last all that long and don't build powerful empires, they just tend to destroy things.

i don't know about that. i think about our last president and vp, bush and dick cheney. bush, i think really wasn't a power broker and was not altogether lacking in integrity. but he was clearly not nearly as powerful as cheney, who's integrity is still being sought in the middle east. it has proved most elusive. he was (and continues to be) motivated completely by power and greed. he makes littlefinger look like a monk. and he has been VERY successful. our current president, has much more of ned's ideology and fairness and a lot less of littlefinger's cunning and manipulation and isn't faring as well.

these guys are as powerful as it gets in the u.s., politically. if i look at business, with the exception of bill gates, all our businessmen show far more ruthlessness than integrity. and they are very rewarded. unless they get caught. maybe living in ny has made me very jaded, but i see bad people winning far more than good. (as for gates, it is interesting that for all his philanthropy, his product is a monopoly that successfully blocks all other platforms)

and i agree with you, grrm's grim view does seem very unrealistic. i think many of his characters fall more in one camp than the other but not all of them. tyrion does indeed show both qualities which i think is what grrm thinks is the winning combination. too much of one or the other will not be successful in the long run. but a bit of both is just the thing.

that said, i see people responding much more positively to "good" people. so yes, your course is right. but who the masses respond to and who has true integrity aren't the same.

btw, i wish i had some of your tech savvy. i've been trying to dub a dvd all day and can't figure it out! i've downloaded every program i can think of and i still can't make a simple copy.

*bangs head against the desk*