Never After: a few thoughts

Sep 28, 2009 18:09

Sunday I saw Never After. It's cute and bouncy. Much of the music is fun; the orchestra was excellent. It pushed at my definition of 'fairy tale' -- I think it isn't quite one, to me, but instead belongs over in whatever one calls the space Gilbert and Sullivan operettas are in ( Read more... )

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ceelove October 2 2009, 02:54:21 UTC
Hi! There's a lot in this thread to respond to, so I am going to kind of cherry-pick. Thank you for taking the time to bring up issues that bothered you, and then for unlocking the entry.

The first thing Les does as a bandit after the training montage in which she has nominally learned all sorts of combat skills is pretend to be a damsel in distress to bait an unwary traveler.

This is very compressed from the movie script. In that, she fumbles a lot, but ends up taking advantage of the confusion of the aristocrat by making off with two horses. I had not considered how it would come across, to have her playing damsel-in-distress; I was thinking of it as an extension of her glee at deceiving Camembert with her "feminine wiles" - utilizing instead of being entrapped by sexism. I'd like to think it's more balanced and nuanced in the full version (which, by the way, you're welcome to read at http://www.lightsuit.org/Never After2.pdf).
After two scenes in which Les ( ... )

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kelkyag October 2 2009, 11:42:55 UTC
I had not considered how it would come across, to have her playing damsel-in-distress; I was thinking of it as an extension of her glee at deceiving Camembert with her "feminine wiles" - utilizing instead of being entrapped by sexism.

I wasn't fond of her using "feminine wiles" against Camembert, either, but that at least felt desperate, clumsy, and forced by circumstances rather than planned. That sort of manipulation is a learned skill, but she's presented as having spent her childhood dodging lessons in traditional feminine skills (be those embroidery or seduction) in favor of climbing trees and playing at swordsmanship with Hans. That she has those skills or is willing to use them to me undercuts her character as a tomboy and forwards the notion that manipulation of that sort is inherent in being female rather than learned skill used by the sex with less overt power.

Also, she just acquired the combat training she's been wanting her whole life. Why is she not itching to put that to use?

I'd like to think it's more balanced ( ... )

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kelkyag October 2 2009, 11:43:14 UTC
(continued)

I had intended it as a hero's journey: Les goes out, has adventures that mature her, and returns home with new skills and knowledge. I was trying for "nascent democracy", where the peasants decide for themselves that they want Les to continue to lead and guide them. She has done so thus far, giving her time and money to their betterment and fighting on their behalf, completely unlike the royals whom she has renounced.She does return home with new skills and knowledge, but none that particularly qualify her to rule anything, nor does she seem suited by temperment to rule -- too much sitting still talking, not enough adventuring. (As is mentioned above, how she and Somnia are going to arrange a life that works for both of them is an interesting problem ( ... )

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ceelove October 2 2009, 15:17:20 UTC
I like the idea of combining people's skills here, thank you. And yes, this could help with the problem of Somnia not having enough characteristics that people feel make her admirable/a match for Les/something other than a pretty-princess...

The intended message was that Les had matured beyond "rejecting men and a constraining life" into "embracing love and responsibility". I'll aim towards more of "sovereign at a stroke/content to share what's now the lot of common folk." Shared responsibility, each knowing and valuing their own gifts.

[scribble scribble scribble]

Thanks for the commentary. It's apparent to me now that I was doing some lazy thinking, mostly about how to spoof and subvert fairytale tropes, without letting some of the character tropes become more of the real people they can be.

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desireearmfeldt October 2 2009, 15:29:54 UTC
I wonder whether you might want to go the other way, keep the focus more on Les and less on the revolution, and maybe have tge revolution not get so far -- so maybe at the end the royals are not deposed, Les is still princess, but she's clearly learned that the system of privilege and oppression is no good and she's thinking about what to do about that in the 'next chapter.'. I'm not sure this is actually a good idea, as among other things it'd be easy to have it come across as the lazy privileged liberal... But on the other hand, I think the revolution is a side story rather than the main point, and giving it more focus might distract -- and I think it's very tricky to treat something so complex within the short/deliberately simplistic genre constraints, and not come across as naive ("topple the monarchy! Bloodless coup! All problems solved!"). Anyway, tossing it out as somethingbto think about ( ... )

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kelkyag October 2 2009, 21:23:21 UTC
As a footnote on why Les kissing Somnia without thinking about the situation bothers me so much: true love's kiss is the Disney take on that story, in which prince and princess had already met, were in love, and were betrothed (though they didn't realize that was to each other). In bad old versions of the sleeping beauty story, she is raped, gives birth to twins while still asleep, and wakes up when one of the babies, casting about to suckle, sucks the splinter of the spindle out of her finger. Waking the sleeping beauty is not so innocent, nor is this take particularly so, with Les's awakening to sexual desire.

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