Words and What They Mean
I'm involved with a parent group online, and like so many while it is titled a parent group it is mostly a mommy group. There are daddys that post, but on this particular post none of the comments apppeared to be from males.
So the post was, and I'm being lazy and paraphrasing:
Argh my husband!
We're trying to have another kid, and I'm ovulating, and we need to have sex tonight or tomorrow night and I suggested sex tonight and he rolled over and went to sleep. He really wants another kid. I want to get it started now so I'm not in my 3rd trimester in the dead of summer. Needed to vent!
This fits well in this group, and seems reasoonable, but then we get into the comments. I know don't read the comments, but it's a facebook group, so half the conversation is there, and usually this group is mostly with the helpful advice and sympathy.
Comments included:
I would have jumped on, asleep or not
Poster:I've explained to him that al he has to do is lie there
Commenter A: Suggest preapproved "taking advantage of"
Poster:He's not getting off that easy
Me:trying to be sympathetic, but if we switched the gender on this it would sound rapey. i thought the rule was enthusiastic consent.
C.A: Does sound rapey. Only started when trying to have child. Even when I push it he could say no/indicate lack of interest. Explicit Consent is hard when your busy.
P: We are both consenting.
Further elaboration
P: not getting off that easy comment just a joke, sorry if I offended anyone else.
It was really this last that got me, and if you've made it this far I appreciate it.
Full disclosure i'm paraphrasing, and probably dropping a lot of the nuance of the conversation, and we didn't have any trouble at all conseiving Kosh.
I grew up in the 80-90s when political correctness was something that came up in conversation a lot more than it does now. It was akward, and it was taken to extremes like maternity leave (seperate from paternity leave) for men. But the pendulum swing on it can be dangerous, and in many areas like this one is more illustrative of a problem in the culture than we want to admit.
One issue is that even though something is intended as a joke that may not be clear to everyone interacting with it. This is especially true of the internet. You don't know whonwill see your joke,and if someone doesn't know it's a joke that someone might look at this as reinforcing a behavior, and that builds the cultural norms. This can be especially problematic around sex related interactions, and with racist, or any other ist you like jokes.
But more importantly what does it say when ts is how we joke?
How did it become funny to threaten someone, or belittle someone. What does it do to our culture, and show to our children when we use threats and insults to make ourselves happy?
This isn't all I wanted to say, but maybe it's enough to let me stop trying to compose it in my head.
So the post was, and I'm being lazy and paraphrasing:
Argh my husband!
We're trying to have another kid, and I'm ovulating, and we need to have sex tonight or tomorrow night and I suggested sex tonight and he rolled over and went to sleep. He really wants another kid. I want to get it started now so I'm not in my 3rd trimester in the dead of summer. Needed to vent!
This fits well in this group, and seems reasoonable, but then we get into the comments. I know don't read the comments, but it's a facebook group, so half the conversation is there, and usually this group is mostly with the helpful advice and sympathy.
Comments included:
I would have jumped on, asleep or not
Poster:I've explained to him that al he has to do is lie there
Commenter A: Suggest preapproved "taking advantage of"
Poster:He's not getting off that easy
Me:trying to be sympathetic, but if we switched the gender on this it would sound rapey. i thought the rule was enthusiastic consent.
C.A: Does sound rapey. Only started when trying to have child. Even when I push it he could say no/indicate lack of interest. Explicit Consent is hard when your busy.
P: We are both consenting.
Further elaboration
P: not getting off that easy comment just a joke, sorry if I offended anyone else.
It was really this last that got me, and if you've made it this far I appreciate it.
Full disclosure i'm paraphrasing, and probably dropping a lot of the nuance of the conversation, and we didn't have any trouble at all conseiving Kosh.
I grew up in the 80-90s when political correctness was something that came up in conversation a lot more than it does now. It was akward, and it was taken to extremes like maternity leave (seperate from paternity leave) for men. But the pendulum swing on it can be dangerous, and in many areas like this one is more illustrative of a problem in the culture than we want to admit.
One issue is that even though something is intended as a joke that may not be clear to everyone interacting with it. This is especially true of the internet. You don't know whonwill see your joke,and if someone doesn't know it's a joke that someone might look at this as reinforcing a behavior, and that builds the cultural norms. This can be especially problematic around sex related interactions, and with racist, or any other ist you like jokes.
But more importantly what does it say when ts is how we joke?
How did it become funny to threaten someone, or belittle someone. What does it do to our culture, and show to our children when we use threats and insults to make ourselves happy?
This isn't all I wanted to say, but maybe it's enough to let me stop trying to compose it in my head.