CoC in demand

[kattahj]

So, I started thinking about just how many CoCs are underrepresented in fandom, sometimes vastly so (*cough* Gus on Psych * cough*), and it became rather depressing - and then I started wondering about the ones that aren't underrepresented, and why that is.

At which point thelana made a very interesting post about that, among other things. Her example of

Comments

[tiferet]

It's almost impossible to ship Hiro/Ando if you know anything about Japanese men. Ando is so very perfectly drawn as the kind of Japanese man who is basically the anti-gay (not homophobic, just...really really not gay, Kinsey 0.) I have dated enough guys like Ando and you know, the closest that kind of man will ever get to gay is maybe letting some guy suck his dick while he closes his eyes and thinks about strippers, but in order to be drunk enough to do that, he'd probably be too drunk to come.

[kattahj]

Oh, I'm sure Ando would never sleep with a man if the situation was normal, but when your timetraveling friend brings you halfway across the world, and shows you a future where you're dead, and then pops off to the 16th century for a while... well, if that's not the point to start questioning your assumptions about life, I don't know what would be. (Unless you're saying that Japanese men are inherently less gay than Western men? Because that would be... odd.)

Of course, I could be biased by the fact that every time Ando's with a woman I go from my usual love to wanting to strangle him ASAP. So as far as I'm concerned, he needs to be with a man, be alone, or grow the fuck up.

[tiferet]

I've re-examined my assumptions about life many times, converted to a different religion, and yet...my sexual orientation, amazingly, has never changed. I wish it would because I'm 90% heterosexual and think I would be happier with a woman if I could make the sex work--and lord knows I've tried. I don't think Japanese men are inherently less gay than Western men. I do think Ando Masahashi is inherently NOT GAY as an individual.

Also, this?

Of course, I could be biased by the fact that every time Ando's with a woman I go from my usual love to wanting to strangle him ASAP. So as far as I'm concerned, he needs to be with a man, be alone, or grow the fuck up.This does not sound like a reason to ship Ando with someone one actually likes. At all. As someone who's had sexual relationships with both men and women, and many bisexual people, trust me: most people are the same kind of asshole with men that they are with women

[kattahj]

I do think Ando Masahashi is inherently NOT GAY as an individual.

OK. Our mileage clearly varies on this, but at least I think I understand what you're getting at now - the whole "if you know anything about Japanese men" bit confused me in context.

This does not sound like a reason to ship Ando with someone one actually likes. At all. As someone who's had sexual relationships with both men and women, and many bisexual people, trust me: most people are the same kind of asshole with men that they are with women.

Ando's not usually an asshole around men, though. I feel, specifically, that he has misogynist tendencies. That's not rare. And a lot of people are different around men and women. I'm different around men and women.

So yeah, I'm a totally committed Hiro/Ando anti-shipper. I won't read the pairing even if someone I like writes it, because it either breaks my brain or seems OOC to me.Okay. Your choice

[tiferet]

Uh, I wasn't actually planning to bypass the topic, I didn't know it was one of YOUR pairings but rather just something you wondered why it wasn't more popular, and I thought I was trying to explain that.

See, I find that most of the people I've met that ship Hiro/Ando don't actually know that much about Japanese people (though they do tend to be people who read a crapload of Japanese yaoi comics)--I was going to talk about the way Ando behaves a bit more, but it seems to have offended you.

You don't need to edit your post. I just haven't ever met anyone who's spent a lot of time around Japanese guys who'd think it surprising that they're not very shippable.

That said, even Hiro/Ando, which I find unutterably unbelievable, would've been preferable to second season Hiro's plot, with Kensei the White Japanese guy (NO JUST NO) and Yaeko the twit who can't tell the difference between someone who speaks her native language and a foreigner with a British accent because they wore the same costume?

[kattahj]

Okay. I got a bit overdefensive, sorry.

So, do you feel that Hiro's plot is a main reason for the disconnect between the amount of love Hiro gets from the fans and the amount of fic written? Is there a disconnect? I feel that there is, but maybe people secretly write more Hiro than I think, or secretly hate Hiro, or something.

And, huh, maybe Ando should be on the list. He's a pretty minor character, even if he's in a lot of eps, and there's no denying he has fics.

[tiferet]

Ando should be on the list, there should be more fic about him. I actually want to see Ando/Jessica fic. She would be such a good education for him!

[kattahj]

Oh, God. *giggles* Yeah, I can just imagine.

[tiferet]

Maybe someday I'll write an Ando/Jessica. It'll really be Hidetoshi/Me with Super Strength and a bad attitude, but I think people will enjoy it a lot.

[thelana]

In my experience though, when has that ever stopped fans? It just seems to me that often slash fans go for pairings that many non-slash fan consider brainbreaking ("What? A/B hate each other!" or "What? But A is in love with C!" or "What? But A has never shown any interest in B!"). It just seems to me that is the frequent complaint when people say that a pairing isn't as popular as it should be, that this kind of reasoning would never stop people if the two characters were white, so why should it stop them if the characters Shawn and Gus for example. It's not like we don't take ample liberties with characterization otherwise.

[tiferet]

Well, I absolutely couldn't say that I wouldn't think this if the characters weren't Japanese, but I do have to say that it's because I dated a guy who is so exactly like Ando that it sometimes makes me CRINGE. (OMG he was such a jerk. In the same way that Ando is. And I know so MANY guys like this. OTOH I would think a character who reminded me of my first husband, who is as white as polished rice, equally unslashable. Now that is the first time I have ever thought Len and Hidetoshi were in anyway alike, and if you'll excuse me I'm gonna go wash my brain now lol.)