Closing a chapter of my life
I always did regret how things turned out between me and Arch. I mean, we had a good relationship for awhile. And then the relationship ended and we didn't notice. And in all reality, we should have broken up then. Everything bad that happened between us was basically because we were too slow to notice that we weren't in love anymore
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K, I'd like to be totally honest about this without anyone getting mad at me. I really would. But somehow I don't think that's gonna happen.
The whole situation was fucked up. I've heard stuff from various people and actually heard you talk about Arch before, so I'm going by all that. You guys really weren't all that great together. No offense. You treated each other badly in various ways. You shouldn't have talked so badly about him, especially behind his back. I mean, I know you did it because I heard you and Lauren and B heard you and I can see by Ren's comment that he certainly heard you. Arch probably should have been more communicative about issues he had with you both before and after the breakup. Though I heard he called you and talked to you for hours to get things settled. But yeah, you definitely didn't work out as a couple. The end.
But then, after that, I heard that you thought Lauren stole him from you. O.o Which is weird, because that sure didn't appear to be what happened to me. Perhaps it was miscommunication or someone misunderstood what happened or what you said.
I think that's a lot of why they didn't feel comfortable talking to you much after that. I kind of wish they'd talk to you about it too, but you know that neither of them like getting involved with drama, especially online, which is understandable because that tends to waste a lot of time and be really frustrating. And maybe they think they'd just be wasting their time because you wouldn't really understand what they felt.
But yeah, he didn't cheat on you. Dunno why someone who was once friends with him would try to trash his name like that, especially in a comment on a public entry. Not cool.
Probably the only way to work things out now and get some peace of mind is just to burn that bridge. :( It is sad, but sometimes that's just what happens with people. And I mean, this did all happen quite awhile ago and you've been living without really talking to them and you have friends and aren't you still going out with that one guy? and stuff, so it doesn't really change anything.
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In this case, I eventually learned enough about Arch - mostly from a single conversation directly with him - to lose any respect for him I ever had, especially in light of the fact that he chose to vanish shortly after. The end.
I agree with you that Arch and Kat were a horrific mismatch. In light of my most recent opinion on Arch, I'd say he's a horrific mismatch for anything with a pulse, but yeah, Kat specifically. I also agree that letting the past go is the best thing to do. And that Arch has always been among the worst communicators in history, where personal matters are concerned. Mostly, the only thing that I disagree with is that you're still putting words on the Internet, when I'm pretty sure there should be one sort of state employee or another preventing your access. And spraying you down with a firehose every two hours or so.
State employees of either sort can't actually do that, but they should be allowed, at least this once.
Damn, that felt good. :D
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Yeah, Arch and Kat together were not good. And yes, she talked with me about her problems with him. And if you ask HIM, he'll tell you himself I talked to him about it on ore than one occasion. I did my best to try and help them. Sometimes I feel that was a mistake, but I didn't want to see friends hurting.
I dunno what happened with Arch and Sev getting together. I heard about it, I knew about it, but I don't know the details. I don't know if there was a betrayal there or not. Or, for that matter, care. And Sev if he and you are happy (and the few mysterious posts you've made about your love life indicate you are), then I'm glad. Still stand by what I said above, because that was the guy I knew back then. Coulda changed. Hope he did, because change is what he needed.
And Sev, yeah I am kinda going off one side because that's the only one I've heard. Be glad to hear others if they're available. If not oh well. Personally, this has degenerated too far. Kat posts something saying she missed an old friend, and we're all turning it into an ugly argument over what might have been. Doesn't matter in the end.
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For myself, I'm not going off one side. In fact, my perception of the whole scenario was colored by trying very hard to make sense of what was going on in a way that didn't make Arch look like a complete asshat. (Not that Kat was trying to make him look bad. Far from it. She always tried to blame herself for screwed up stuff.) It baffled me, but I was determined to give him the benefit of the doubt. And then I had a long conversation with him, focused mainly on trying to talk him out of a bizarre attitude of self-indulgent voluntary martyrdom where he blamed others when the consequences of his behavior conflicted with his goals. Of course, when he found himself actually facing criticism from me, he accused Kat of telling me nasty things about him, and immediately cut all ties to me. This, of course, confirmed what I already suspected, and then some.
But whatever. I doubt anybody's mind is going to be changed about anything, but since we're all here and fussing anyway, I might as well show my hand.
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I understand taking issue with something somebody says, but it's like you absolutely have to take issue with something to the point that the person themself becomes less than shit in your eyes. I don't see where any of that is necessary, and I don't see where you can make a reasonable connection to even act like this.
I mean, seriously, if she was as crazy and stupid as you seem to think she is, I wouldn't have put up with her for nearly this long. I wouldn't be her friend, and she probably wouldn't even have any friends. How is she being self-centered or neurotic in giving what can only be negatively described as wishy-washy? It doesn't argue particularly toward either side and is more about trying to create a resolution for the parties involved.
This kind of mean-spirited bullshit isn't smart or insightful or even funny. It's just pointlessly mean, it's bullying for the sake of it, and that's not right. I'm surprised you don't see it as such.
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That being the case, this is the second time this month that she's gotten on my case about LJ comments that didn't concern her, and I'm tired of it. Also, the subject matter happened to touch on the stupid bullshit I had to put up with back when she was venting to me about stupid shit going on in your relationship. For instance, the way she really painted you as a son of a bitch when she was in one of her moods, and yet I was friends with both of you. You see how this is relevant?
So, yeah, just this once, I didn't feel like being the bigger man. I was honest, and I was mean. Maybe she got the message: back the fuck off. I want her to not talk to me, not comment on my words or deeds, or even acknowledge my existance within my ability to perceive it, because she's long since ran what patience I had for her dry.
So no, I don't think I'm being pointlessly mean, or a bully, or that I'm taking issue with what anyone says far past the point of reason.
Hell, take you, for instance. I don't think you're "less than shit." Hell, in a way, I think you're almost admirable, if extremely misguided. This many years, and you're still willing to charge in and play the hero every time someone makes your little pet cry? Even after all the trainwreck that was your relationship? Remarkable. Sad, but remarkable. Willing to back up your friends against their betters... even when they're wrong, and you know it.
Anyway, this isn't the place for this fight. If you want to have it out, ping me on AIM on some occasion when I'm not getting ready to crash.
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I mean, hell, how many times does Sarah mention that she's not trying to offend anyone, that she's saying this out of simple honesty and not wanting to instigate any negative feelings? The only time Sarah mentioned you specifically was to say that you heard something.
Holy shit, you heard something that Kat said! OH MY GOD STOP THE PRESSES IT'S TIME FOR SOME SERIOUS ASS-FUCKIN'
I'm gonna use that from now on. Anytime somebody says "Nate heard you say this," I will literally pounce on that person and eat their flesh.
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If you'd have read a little closer, instead of trying to be a BIG DAMN HERO, you'd have noticed that she referred specifically to the contents of my comment in hers, suggesting that I was slandering someone who had been a friend for no reason. But no, you have to charge to the rescue, just like you always have. Look before you leap, man.
And for fuck's sake - if you absolutely can not wait to address this to me directly, I've logged back on to AIM for a bit. Send me a message, and we can resolve this. DO NOT continue to pollute Kat's journal with this garbage.
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Sarah's my friend, dude, I don't like when people talk shit about her for no real reason. Yeah, she complained a lot when we were going out, but it was kind of for a good reason: I was a shitty boyfriend. You didn't necessarily have to listen to her, and this isn't me being a hero, this is me wanting a bromantic conversation wanting a straight answer out of you:
why do you hate her so much? This is important to me, I really want to know. Yes, Sarah has flaws. CONGRATURATION, you've described everybody I know. Yes, she can irritate the hell out of me sometimes, but she is an actual good person who tries (sometimes a little too hard) to stay on people's good side. I don't think she deserves this at all, especially for something like, I dunno, "butting into a conversation."
Or as the rest of us call it, "commenting in someone else's journal with passing mention to your posts."
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Years ago, I thought of her as a friend. I'm trying to remember why, but I can't. Presumably there was some talking about music or anime or manga. Some good times. And yeah, there were times when she was fun to talk to - probably a good percentage of the time, really.
But then there were the times when she ranted endlessly about beauty products or some other shit I couldn't care less about. Or some drama series. Or a dozen other things. But did I say anything? No. I sighed and endured.
There were occasions when I wanted to try talking about something other than the aforementioned stuff, or gossip. I do, after all, have other interests, and she clearly expected me to show an interest in hers. But that always led to her acting disgusted, and changing the subject to something she wanted to talk about. I took that shit with a smile.
I provided a shoulder to cry on through endless bad times, being a constant source of support. Thought nothing of it. After all, what are friends for?
And it worked out just fine - me cheerfully giving and giving, her taking and taking.
Right up until the point when I said something she disagreed with. This was not a clash of opinions - I was right, and she was wrong, definitively. I wasn't being cocky about it. She was trying to tell me how wrong I was, so I responded by pointing out that no, that wasn't the case.
Because I wouldn't admit to being wrong when I wasn't, she went and tattled to you. A person I thought of as a good friend, at the time. And you took her side. Not because she was right, but because she was more important to you. You picked up my discussion with Tachi - where he was asking for advice, and I was giving it to him, telling him he was free to take it or leave it - as your cause too. You know the rest.
So, not only did she flat-out betray me, after everything I'd given her; her stupid bullshit cost me another friend as well.
But I'd overlook all that. If she'd just stay. Out. Of. My. Shit.
All in all, I don't think that's too much to ask.
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I stopped being your friend because you constantly got into things like this with my friends--people you didn't know particularly well. This wasn't a sporadic thing, it was a little too regular for me. I didn't want to put up with it any more, because I don't like drama between friends. I don't like having to choose, but when I have to, I will without blinking, and I won't look back. Our friendship was already strained and probably gone--can you honestly say that I was as close to you at the end as I was before? You claim to have known me so well, but if that were the case, you'd know exactly how much I abhor bullying. The very notion that I was bullying Peter caused me to look back on what I was doing--and yes, I was. I still feel bad about that, and I still feel a little sick inside thinking about how I ended up acting like that towards somebody else.
It wasn't Sarah that killed our friendship, it was me. I got sick of your attitude and how you treated other people, so I decided to mercy-kill the damn thing.
There's a reason the phrase "agree to disagree" ends so many arguments. I think global warming is bullshit. I think environmentalism in general is a crock. I think Canada needs to actually do something on the stage of history (I've always wanted to phrase it like that) before they act all smug about how retarded our 43rd president was. These are all things that have led Sarah and I to get into fights, but simply being able to call it quits, even though I feel I'm 100% right on every single one of these, allows me to keep a friendship I cherish.
I don't really care about bath products, or the dramas Sarah's watching. She knows these aren't all that interesting to me, although I have to admit that I praise the fucking day that Sarah introduced me to that vanilla yogurt body wash. However, because she's my friend, I listen and try and converse despite my limited knowledge because she does the exact same thing to me for shit she doesn't care about: action movies and sports and martial arts and whatever I decide to inundate her with that day. That's what friends do. Honestly I don't think Sarah or Charles or Kevin cares as much as I do that Street Fighter IV is coming out, but they know it makes me happy, and being my friends, they'll put on a smile and put up with me orgasming all over them, because that's what friends do. It's not how much they care about my interests, it's about how they try to care about my interests. There were plenty of times Sarah would ask me questions to try and better understand whatever the hell it was you were talking about to her at the time, but she tried, man. She tried, but it's not like it fucking mattered in the end, I guess.
But hey, it's up to her whether she wants to stay out of your shit or not. My guess is yes, but I mean, damn, dude... sometimes it's your fault when someone doesn't want to be friends with you. I've driven people away too, and it wasn't always intentional. It sucks, but that's why you learn from it and try not to do that to other people. Friendship's all I have--I don't have brothers or sisters to cry to, I just have friends.
They're not a commodity.
Maybe this is why you keep losing us--because you're so intent on proving that you're right, that your opinions are the only ones that hold any water, because all of us are fallacious fucksticks. The only people you still like are the ones who hang on your every word and agree with what you say, because if we disagree with you then WOE TO THE DAMNED for we're well and fucked. You don't talk to your friends like they're equals--you talk to them like they're an audience, and not a particularly bright one at that.
Try giving respect sometime instead of expecting people to earn it. A smile is better than a smirk any day of the goddamn week.
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I repeatedly voiced a desire to end this, or at least take it someplace else, and yet here we are, airing our dirty laundry in the LJ of one of the very few people whose opinion I still give a shit about from those days. Because you pressed the issue. You could not let it die, or even take it someplace else. Do you see the irony here?
All I really want from you people is to be left alone. I don't care if we ever post in the same place, just keep your mouths shut about me, and it will be cool. Failing that, be civil and don't start shit with me, and I'll return the favor. See above, where Terrant posted in response to me? If I was looking for it, I could definitely take some offense to the implied criticism in the opening sentence, but I chose not to. And you know what I think of Terrant. If he and I can peacefully co-exist, the problem just might not be all me.
One last thing, before is discussion is completely over. This is Kat's LJ. I don't know if you, Mooo, remember what my friendship with Kat's been like over the years. Not exactly the most stable thing in the world. We've been at each other's throats more than once. But today I think of her as one of my very best friends. We disagree on a lot of things, and we both have lots of interests that aren't mutual, but still. I enjoy her company and respect her opinion enough that when rough patches hit, it's worthwhile to work through them. So I do know what that's all about. The fact that she's blaming me for this mess is a bit hurtful, but whatever. Here's the essential bit.
When I say that it's time to take the fight somewhere else, I fucking mean it. I did not want to burden Kat with our shit. If this ends up happening again, you will listen to me when I tell you so. If you make me upset my friends again, you'll see me really angry for the first time.
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I'm not going to leave what apparently you think of as your internet just so you don't have to see me around. Just ignore me if I disgust you so much.
Nate decided to drop it as soon as Kat asked you both to, and it would have been nice if you could have done the same. I thought that since the argument was about me I could do one reply and then let it go.
Now, Kat, your friend, has asked you to stop it, so please don't respond. Just pretend I'm not here from now on and we'll all be happy.
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Fuck, this had nothing to do with either of you. Ren, seriously, take the petty hate to a different place. It's just not relevant. Sarah is still on my friends list. There's a reason for that. Mostly because I don't care if you dislike her, because I have nothing against her.
This means she has a right to post her opinion in my LJ. Without being attacked.
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And there was no phone call. There was no real "settled" after that incident.
Did I "trash" him in a public blog? Selfishly, yes. I knew he read it, and I knew he did not have an account. When I aired my opinion about our fights in this blog, it was for his benefit. When I complained about our latest fight, it was because I needed a friend because I was upset about it. 99% of our fights were private.
And yes, I still am going out with Frank.
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