Huge spoilers for prom episode from @NicoleCrowther. View at your own risk! (It doesn't look like it's been posted here yet. Apologies if I'm wrong) ( Under the cut! )
I hope they don't scrap it and do something else. Read somewhere they were going to do re-shoots now. People are going nuts...I've been see so many venomous Klainers yelling that it should be Kurt and Blaine even though Blaine doesn't even go to McKinley. I said it was just one dance/moment let them have it. You'd think I just pissed in their cereal. One friend of mine said "I Hope You're happy now." like I had wished somebody dead and they died, which only ever happened once ok maybe twice.
Also, Klainers scare me. Like, what. Every teenager only has one relationship ever? Give me a break. There's no reason why Dave couldn't become boyfriend material and eventually go out with Kurt. Plus, that's not even the issue here. Apparently, the prom titles are bestowed on them as a prank!
So, technically, Klainers should be happy, if anything...their ship may still stand.
There's no reason why Dave couldn't become boyfriend material and eventually go out with Kurt.
Actually, there is, imho. I mean, i ship Kurtofsky because it's just fanfic and I love me some angst (plus, Max and Chris are hot), but in all honesty I would probably stop watching Glee if they put Kurt together with his bully. That's just so fucked up and wrong on so many levels, and completely sends the wrong message. Imo.
I would lovelovelove for Dave to redeem himself somehow and for him and Kurt to settle their differences, maybe even become friends, but boyfriends? No. Dave still verbally and physically abused Kurt, sexually assaulted him, and forced him to give up his friends and family just to feel safe. Dave is probably the root of many of Kurt's issues with himself. Those are plenty good reasons why Kurtofsky should never happen on the show, as much as I like reading fanfic about it.
The root of Kurts many issues is living in an intolerant and homophobic town ... Dave was just the straw that broke the camels back but it had been a long time in coming, since season 1, in fact.
Also, I'd be a little bit more discreet about bashing Kurtofsky on a Kurtofsky fan comm. =/
I'm pretty sure that Dave is one of the main reasons for Kurt's issues. Since he's been pretty much the number one bully since season 1. For Kurt to actually have a relationship with the person who tormented him is terribly mentally unhealthy. IMO.
I'm not bashing, I enjoy the thought of Kurtofsky, I just think it would be terribly irresponsible of the writers to make it happen in canon. In fic, however, I love them. I think their dynamic is really interesting, and like I said, I love me some angst.
I love Kurt, I sympathize with Dave, and I want them both to have happy endings. I just can't really justify a canon!relationship in my head. It's just my own opinion, of course.
Since he's been pretty much the number one bully since season 1.
Um no. Not really. Dave's main targets are Finn and Quinn in Season One and then he ups the ante on Kurt in Season Two when the whole closet case storyline was being built up.
And if your intention truly was not to come off like you were bashing maybe next time you should think about your wording? Because saying that a pairing is fucked up and wrong on so many levels in a comm that is dedicated to that specific pairing is pretty insensitive.
Actually he was bullying Kurt pretty bad in season one as well. In Theatricality, for example.
I do think that a canon relationship between them would be wrong, for the reasons I stated. I was not aware that negative opinions were not allowed here. I said I'm a fan and I enjoy the pairing (I like fucked up and wrong, okay?), I just don't like the message a canon!relationship would send.
nonnynon I agree with you a 100%. I am not bashing Kurt/Karosky but I don't think they could work on the show. He threatened to kill Kurt. You can say that he didn't mean it but the important thing is that Kurt believed it to be true.
I like Kurt/Karosky in fic also because I like dark fic, and sometimes in a fanfic sense you can write a relationship and work with it. But on the show it just can't work IMO.
I also didn't feel like you were offensive at all. But I'm sure people will think I'm being offensive since I'm agreeing with you. Oh, well, what can you do?
Given that this is Glee and they seem to place a good deal of focus on people changing (how many current and former bullies does Glee Club have at this point, a lot) it wouldn't send any worse of a message than some of the other crazy stuff I've seen on this show.
Besides ... who watches Glee for the message? If they manage to send a good message that's cool but this isn't really a show that people watch to get a life lesson out of. It really is meant to be pure entertainment, muddying it up with messages and political correctness would, IMO, take away a good deal of the shows 'soul'.
I agree. And I'm wondering exactly what kind of message you think it would be sending if Karofsky came full circle, repented, went through some kind of cathartic change, paid his dues, made peace with Kurt and then, after all of that, got into a relationship with Kurt.
I'm not saying that Dave should say he's sorry and then they fall madly in love, that would be ridiculous, but the reason I like this pairing in fiction is that it's not the easy choice. There's some work that has to go into it. Seeing that whole metamorphosis would send a good message, I think. JMO.
As I said, I'm not saying they should wave a magic wand and have everything go away, that wouldn't be right. I said IF they could do it correctly, I wouldn't think it would be a bad thing.That's all. I'm not saying this happens over an episode, it would have to happen over a season or two. I'm just saying I'm OK with the possibility if it were done right. On that we'll just have to agree to disagree.
And I know about bullying. I was bullied as a child (for a different reason), and my daughter, who has autism, has been bullied. It needs to be dealt with, and it has to be dealt with the right way.
As for fic, I'm not a fan of the angsty dub con or dark fics with these two. I need to see a change and a remorseful, reformed Dave. The fics I like the most are the future fics where they are adults, honestly.
Yeah, I agree. I just don't think it can be dealt with in the right way, at least not on this show. It has the attention span of a 5-year old.
I don't like dub con fic either, I just like the angsty ones where they both go through lots of heavy shit but come out as a happy though somewhat emotionally wrought out couple on the other side :)
And as a side note, I also adore the couple in your icon :3
Yay - another LuRian! I never even knew that there was such a thing as a fandom was or that fanfiction existed and after watching ATWT for almost 40 years (starting VERY young with my Mom), Eric Sheffer-Stevens and Dr. Reid Oliver walked on to that show and into my life and I've been in love with him ever since! <3
I have always loved Luke - never liked Noah, so I was so happy when they brought Reid on for him. I'm still devastated at the ending, but that's why I live in fanfiction. As far as I'm concerned, it never happened. If the show had continued, it would have been a dream, or it was someone else in the car or something!
If you think that political correctness is equal to "muddying it up", then I think we're coming from two totally different standpoints.
Well, considering how much the writers and actors themselves have been talking about how they want to send a great message with this Karofsky storyline, I'd say messages have something to do with it. And I'm not even talking about deliberate messages, I'm talking about the underlining messages that ALL media, no matter what it is, sends out. And putting Kurt, whose character is largely made up of issues stemming from his problems with bullies, together with his main bully, is, imo, not a good message to send.
So even if Dave does a complete 180 on the show and is no longer a bully you would still maintain that it would be a completely negative message to send out? I'm not trying to argue. I'm genuinely curious because I personally feel that would be an awesome message to send out to the scared and confused closeted teens that Karofsky represents.
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Also, Klainers scare me. Like, what. Every teenager only has one relationship ever? Give me a break. There's no reason why Dave couldn't become boyfriend material and eventually go out with Kurt. Plus, that's not even the issue here. Apparently, the prom titles are bestowed on them as a prank!
So, technically, Klainers should be happy, if anything...their ship may still stand.
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Actually, there is, imho. I mean, i ship Kurtofsky because it's just fanfic and I love me some angst (plus, Max and Chris are hot), but in all honesty I would probably stop watching Glee if they put Kurt together with his bully. That's just so fucked up and wrong on so many levels, and completely sends the wrong message. Imo.
I would lovelovelove for Dave to redeem himself somehow and for him and Kurt to settle their differences, maybe even become friends, but boyfriends? No. Dave still verbally and physically abused Kurt, sexually assaulted him, and forced him to give up his friends and family just to feel safe. Dave is probably the root of many of Kurt's issues with himself. Those are plenty good reasons why Kurtofsky should never happen on the show, as much as I like reading fanfic about it.
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Also, I'd be a little bit more discreet about bashing Kurtofsky on a Kurtofsky fan comm. =/
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I'm not bashing, I enjoy the thought of Kurtofsky, I just think it would be terribly irresponsible of the writers to make it happen in canon. In fic, however, I love them. I think their dynamic is really interesting, and like I said, I love me some angst.
I love Kurt, I sympathize with Dave, and I want them both to have happy endings. I just can't really justify a canon!relationship in my head. It's just my own opinion, of course.
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Um no. Not really. Dave's main targets are Finn and Quinn in Season One and then he ups the ante on Kurt in Season Two when the whole closet case storyline was being built up.
And if your intention truly was not to come off like you were bashing maybe next time you should think about your wording? Because saying that a pairing is fucked up and wrong on so many levels in a comm that is dedicated to that specific pairing is pretty insensitive.
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I do think that a canon relationship between them would be wrong, for the reasons I stated. I was not aware that negative opinions were not allowed here. I said I'm a fan and I enjoy the pairing (I like fucked up and wrong, okay?), I just don't like the message a canon!relationship would send.
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I like Kurt/Karosky in fic also because I like dark fic, and sometimes in a fanfic sense you can write a relationship and work with it. But on the show it just can't work IMO.
I also didn't feel like you were offensive at all. But I'm sure people will think I'm being offensive since I'm agreeing with you. Oh, well, what can you do?
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Given that this is Glee and they seem to place a good deal of focus on people changing (how many current and former bullies does Glee Club have at this point, a lot) it wouldn't send any worse of a message than some of the other crazy stuff I've seen on this show.
Besides ... who watches Glee for the message? If they manage to send a good message that's cool but this isn't really a show that people watch to get a life lesson out of. It really is meant to be pure entertainment, muddying it up with messages and political correctness would, IMO, take away a good deal of the shows 'soul'.
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I'm not saying that Dave should say he's sorry and then they fall madly in love, that would be ridiculous, but the reason I like this pairing in fiction is that it's not the easy choice. There's some work that has to go into it. Seeing that whole metamorphosis would send a good message, I think. JMO.
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And I know about bullying. I was bullied as a child (for a different reason), and my daughter, who has autism, has been bullied. It needs to be dealt with, and it has to be dealt with the right way.
As for fic, I'm not a fan of the angsty dub con or dark fics with these two. I need to see a change and a remorseful, reformed Dave. The fics I like the most are the future fics where they are adults, honestly.
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I don't like dub con fic either, I just like the angsty ones where they both go through lots of heavy shit but come out as a happy though somewhat emotionally wrought out couple on the other side :)
And as a side note, I also adore the couple in your icon :3
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I have always loved Luke - never liked Noah, so I was so happy when they brought Reid on for him. I'm still devastated at the ending, but that's why I live in fanfiction. As far as I'm concerned, it never happened. If the show had continued, it would have been a dream, or it was someone else in the car or something!
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If you think that political correctness is equal to "muddying it up", then I think we're coming from two totally different standpoints.
Well, considering how much the writers and actors themselves have been talking about how they want to send a great message with this Karofsky storyline, I'd say messages have something to do with it. And I'm not even talking about deliberate messages, I'm talking about the underlining messages that ALL media, no matter what it is, sends out. And putting Kurt, whose character is largely made up of issues stemming from his problems with bullies, together with his main bully, is, imo, not a good message to send.
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