The Giz Kids - Psycho Killers? (Qu'est-ce Que C'est) (i.e. WTF?)
A (Possible) Background of Isabella Thornton & Guy of Gisborne - And What Happens Next...?
PLEASE DISCUSS! - No Spoilers - Only Speculation - RH S3
For several weeks now, the possible background of the Gisborne kids, especially Isabella’s, has been bouncing around in my mind - brain cells pinging about like a bad Pachinko game. (No, not fun. And ( Read more... )
***One bit of Guy backstory you didn't mention...gift giving was abig deal...Guy is all 'here let me give you stuff, it means I like you,'....his ties to Vasey...so Guy reads it as Vasey likes him...and Marian's all 'Dude, don't give me ill gotten jewelery'...***
Yes, yes, and YES! I SHOULD have included that, you're right as it's an EXCELLENT point!! It really does speak to so much, doesn't it?! It reinforces Guy's "I gotta get money and land, not only to re-establish our name and to have security, but to - at the most basic level - be LIKED" as well. It's the major motivator of his entire character. (Wow! Good catch!)
You know, I had never thought about it that way re: Vasey before, but boy do you ever have something there. I had always gone with the presumption that Guy was simply working for him for wealth and power and biding his time, moving up the social ladder. I had never snapped to the possiblity of "you've given me money, so you must like me." Hmmm. Something to ponder. Poor Guy.
And it really does speak to his inability to undersand Marian's reality re: money and wealth, and her not being impressed, caulking it up to "Oh, you've always had it, so..." which is true as far as it goes, but he really doesn't understand that she sees things in such a radically different way. Talk about a complete UN-meeting of minds.
THIS is one of those great points that could have been a bone of contention between them if: 1.) she'd lived, 2.) they'd gotten married, and 3.) the writers had let them duke it out all over the 3rd season, working out differences, throwing down against one another on deeply held beliefs, allowing each of the characters to grow while we watched, which would have been really interesting...while Robin could still keep whining and whinging and scampering around in the forest, annoying the wildlife and shooting arrows for the kids.... since it technically is his show. Kinda of.
***And there's been nothing so far that has convinced me that Guy didn't think he was doing right by Isabella when he arranged her marriage. He was wrong, but not that he meant wrong.***
Exactly! And we don't even really know he was wrong (without knowing it) until the writers open Issy's mouth and she tells us WHY it was wrong. I'd love some concrete examples/reasons - perhaps it's coming this week. The scene this week, though - they were both right and both wrong. Which to me makes for an interesting story. Upon a repeat viewing, I love how Lara's eyes kind of go dead on the "just kill me...put us both out of our misery" line. Clearly something really did happen, and I thinks Guy's starting to get that, but for the rest of the time, she is starting to come off as just a whiner. Come on, writers. Clarify!
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***I do hope you're right that this is about clumsily stripping Guy down (but not...usually like *that*)***
I am SOO with you there! Ep. 8? A fan girl's dream. Talk about squee!
***Redemption of Guy...If they have that kind of plan I'll forgive the kind of bumpy road this season that to us there (as long as they never forget that he totally stabbed Marian and should be paying for that whatever happens next).***
Agreed! When it's all said and done, he did stab her, and as much as we may love our AU fic., for the show at least we have to deal with that reality. I think while he verbally has blamed others (Robin, Vasey), and may never admit it aloud (that's just not Guy), I think he absolutely blames himself continually. And I think that constant suffering for what he knows he's done is why so many people are willing to give him a shot at redemption. Thoughts?
Please don't get me wrong - I enjoy the show and don't think the season has been totally rocky, just some episodes wildly uneven. Ep. 7 to me was just non-sensical, for some many reasons, and for so many characters. That could just be the blame of the one writer. But then I blame the show runner too, for not overseeing.
I just don't like the practice of rendering a character stupid, to create a sitution to further the plot line (which, afterall is how they were able to kill off Marian). A character as clever as Issy would never have stood with Robin, in full view of where both Guy AND PJ could have seen them, and eaten strawberries. No. Not plausible with self-protective Issy. But that action propelled the entire story and two plotlines. That, to me, is weak and lazy storytelling, i.e. we couldn't come up with something more plausible. On the other hand, perhaps I should just keep repeating, "This is just a show..."
Thanks so much for reading and commenting!!
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On one, yes I think mostly he wanted the position being with Vasey offered, but it seems a little more complex than that, at least the different side are tangled about each other in that his things/position/gifts=respect/affection issues. The more I think about this the more sad it becomes for poor emotionally stunted Guy.
Gods do I wish we'd gotten a season of Guy and Marian having to learn to really deal with each other because that would have been made of all things awesome, even if they did have to make room for Robin's caper of the week.
bits of part 2:
And I think that constant suffering for what he knows he's done is why so many people are willing to give him a shot at redemption. Thoughts?
Yes. Although the presentation in previous seasons built many of us to a point where we believed Guy was capable of redemption, as opposed to say Vasey in his radiant evil, Guy was beta evil who showed at times that he wasn't black to the core even separate from Marian's efforts to make him a better man.
But yes, the fact that his most notable act of on screen evil seems to have left him with a heaping mound of regret, internal demons, and crazy. It keeps him human and therefore someone you can hope can be redeemed.
A character as clever as Issy would never have stood with Robin, in full view of where both Guy AND PJ could have seen them, and eaten strawberries. No.
Agreed, that move was just...dumb. I'm sure it could have been handled better if the writers had given it a bit more thought.
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Absolutely agreed. Thanks so much for bringing this up as it really is an important dynamic which I hadn't factored in. And makes Guy even sadder.
***Gods do I wish we'd gotten a season of Guy and Marian having to learn to really deal with each other because that would have been made of all things awesome...***
Yeah, clearly everyone does! Hence more and more Guy/Marian fic being written every week to fill the void. I've been thinking about this and the 1 1/4 year gap between series, and how the fans took control themselves. I swear, Richard and Lucy could have been employed for the next 10-15 years alone, simply shooting all the best of all the fic!
And what does it say, really, when the majority of a fandom collectively says, "You screwed us. We don't accept it. You've taken our characters and their stories and done stupid things with them. You betrayed our trust. F.U. We're taking them back and making our own stories, because YOU can't be trusted with them. Screw YOU!" ::accompanyied by various culturally-specific hand gestures::
And, then does it! I have read some AMAZING fic. (as I'm sure you have as well) which far outshines the episodes we're getting, so I guess they were right. (Though ep. 8 really was pretty wonderfully bizarre and amazing in its own wacked out way.)
*****It keeps him human and therefore someone you can hope can be redeemed.*****
Yes and yes! Exactly why we keep following his story. is he going to get there, stumbling along, or not?
*****Agreed, that move was just...dumb. I'm sure it could have been handled better if the writers had given it a bit more thought.*****
And this is what really irritates me the most. They are PAID to give it some thought. And if the first thought was bad, they should have had second and a third. And a show runner who was srong enough to say..."Uh, excuse me, but have you watched the show? Really. Perhaps we didn't give you a clear character outline? No, sorry this won't work. We need something strong, as this will drive the entire episode. Go down the pub and brainstorm with your mates for a bit. Back to your computer, there's a good fellow." Just a thought. Thanks again!
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