what do you see in him again?

[kar3ning]

We went to see New Moon this afternoon. Lord help me.

It was cheese-tastic. You can visit thefreak to read the blow by hilarious blow, but suffice it to say, there was much laughter, we were loudly shushed by some Twi-hards, and when wolf boy took his shirt off, I think 100 women ovulated all at once

Comments

[j3nzie]

I am sorry, as a Disney fan I have a different take on a couple of these:

Cinderella. She was a victim of Domestic abuse from her f'ed up family. They meet and fell in love (sort of .. I mean it was a first date and all) and he searched the country for her. It didn't matter to him at all that she was a "servant" (see above, abused child) - he loved her anyway. She was not meant to be a servant. She was from a good family, who was invited to the ball - she had every right to be there. All the women were chasing the hot prince. She just happened to be the one her fell for but she cleaned up nice ;)

Little Mermaid - She wanted to be human BEFORE she met the guy. That was just further motivation to do so, that and her dad kinda being a controlling dick. When she first sings "Part of your world" it has nothing to do with Eric, only about exploring and not feeling like she belonged in the world she was in. It was in the Reprise of that song when she included him. She made a choice to become human, a) because she had always been interested in the humans and b) because there was a hot guy involved. He didn't MAKE her choose anything. She made the choice herself. Nothing in that movie implied that she was not worthy of the Prince. She was also ALREADY a princess! AND he was totally falling for the mute version of her before he knew anything about her.

Beauty and the Beast - I am not really a fan of this picture and I pretty much agree. He was a dick to her .. it should not have been her responsibility to make him not a jerk. Those were his issues. It would be better if she was a) not held captive there b) he was never mean to her c) was just an ugly monster and she made the choice to love him despite his appearance .. for who he was, but who he was when she made that choice .. was a jerk .. so yeah f that.

Snow White - I am not getting where any of that is coming from. Again. Her Step mother was a controlling bitch. She was taken the woods to be murdered, dude spared her, she ran .. made her own little life with the dwarves .. who tried to protect her .. but she was a little naive and trusted like the scariest looking old lady ever. The real point of the movie is that if you are really pretty .. watch out cause your step-mother is totally going to kill you.

Jasmine was NOT impressed when Aladdin rode in on the big parade as Prince Ali .. it was not until her came up to her room on the flying carpet and put his hand out and said "Don't you trust me?" like her had when they first met in the market. He, as the fake prince was trying to get to know her and that was the only reason she agreed. Also prior to him she rejected ever other person presented to her by her father .. because she didn't want to be an object, she wanted to have something more .. which she found when she connected with Aladdin as the Prince. It was nothing to do with him being a "prince" and they got together even after he was exposed as not being a prince, because she liked him for who he was .. a street rat, free spirit that liked her for who she was .. a free spirited princess, but he liked her when he met her on the street the first time too before he knew who she was. She was already a princess. HE changed for her not the other way around.

There are sever issues on the side of Disney with the princesses .. but most of what you pointed out weren't actually the cases in these particular movies (save Beauty and the Beast)

[nemogbr]

From what I remember the Aladdin and Mulan stories may be the best ones in the matters of being role models for young girls.

As you said Jasmine liked the poor Aladdin and was not impressed with the prince.

Mulan was brave and showed girls what it was like to be in a man's world. What she lacked in brawn, she made up for it with her brains. As someone mentioned she was also not too buxom....you don't need big breasts to save China...lol

She managed to get up that pole and retrieve the arrow, before anyone else.

[j3nzie]

Mulan is my favorite Disney female cartoon lead. I adore how strong she is: I had written this in addition to the above about Mulan - but it was two many characters for one comment so I cut out the Mulan part. You might appreciate it though.

Mulan ... who broke the law to go to war as a boy .. not for a boy .. but for her father. She kinda started falling for the captain .. but mostly cause he was strong, a good leader and face it .. looked pretty good with his shirt off ;) he was not a prince and nothing she did in that movie was motivated by chasing after a guy. Everything she did was for family and for her country, including risking her life AGAIN to go to save the emperor after being exposed as a woman. At the end .. all she wanted to do was go home to be with her family. The boy chased after her cause she was a kick ass chick!
In the very beginning of the film she goes to the matchmaker because it was expected of her by her family, not because she wanted to get married. When she f'ed that up she exposes her soul to the audience in the song Reflections.
"Look at me I will never pass for a perfect bride or a perfect daughter.
Can it be I’m not meant to play this part?
Now I see that if I were truly to be myself, I would break my family’s heart
Who is this girl I see, staring straight back at me?
Why is my reflection someone I don’t know?
Somehow I cannot hide, who I am, though I’ve tried
When will my reflection show, who I am inside?”

She wants to be herself, whoever that might be, but she also doesn’t want to let her family down, and in the time period .. really her only role in life was to get married and have sons. People always forget this example of a strong female lead Disney film because she isn’t one of the main “Princesses”

[j3nzie]

The only thing that's kind of stupid about Mulan is the ending: "Make this woman my personal advisor" "thanks, your majesty, but I better head home to my farm and feed the chickens"

...yeah, smart choice there, Mulan.

[j3nzie]

well when you put in that way it does seem weird.

But really - it just further proves her that motivation always just to save her father from going to war. it was never to be famous and she knew her family probably feared she was dead. She needed to go home and reoncile with her family.

[goblinkatie]

There is nothing wrong with turning down a big job to be there for your family. One could just as easily argue that she IS a feminist because she made a decision based on what she wanted and what she felt she needed to do. The character wasn't motivated to do anything because she was or was not a feminist, that's a label that others place on her, she was motivated by her sense of love and duty to another person. Just because a woman chooses to be there for her family doesn't mean she has no spine or strength. A woman isn't weak because she puts family first, it just means she feels the greatest need for her time and attention lies there.

I'm aware that we all look at stories differently, but to me (as a child) the Disney cartoons were nothing but fun. I didn't feel like the women were being forced into roles or anything like that. I was a CHILD, not an overly analytical grownup looking for an agenda. I was delighted by the wild stories, pretty colors and the fun songs. After I'd watch one, I'd skip around singing "Once Upon a Dream" and dancing with a stuffed animal NOT ponder the implication that only a man can save me if I'm in trouble.

Those messages aren't a part of the videos to a child because a child doesn't know them. It's not until a girl is TOLD about the above relationships and scenarios that she would look for them.

Let children be children and enjoy something they can get innocent delight from. Concerned about the message? Then reach out when they are old enough to understand the possible negatives and show them that while those concepts may have been accurate when the tales were written they don't necessarily hold true today.

Don't dump on someone choosing family, enjoying something different or putting on a pretty dress though. All of those are important parts of life as well.

As far as the Twilight stuff... that's a different matter because the kids who are wrapped up in it are more prone to see deeper angles of the characters' interactions and accept their flaws as how things should be if you want romance.

I think there is enough out there to counter balance one fictitious book series' unintentional glorification of abusive relationships. Come on, the guy turns into a wolf and mauls his girlfriend? And people think that girls are going say "well it worked out for the chick in my book so I have to tough it out"? Let's give the gals out there a bit more credit and assume that they will know thousands of other works out there might have a better point that it's not ok to be hit or belittled by your boyfriend.

Yes, it's disturbing and creepy how much of the relationship between Bella and Edward (Dear God, I've not even read the books or seen the movies and I know their names) mirrors an abusive relationship between a man and a woman but come on... tween girls know it's not ok to get hit by their boyfriend. They also know it's not ok to get called any number of names or made to feel helpless by their boyfriend. The sad truth is that it happens and if they find themselves in a domestic abuse relationship, they probably didn't realize it was going to be one at first. I doubt they will go looking for a guy who would ditch them in the woods and you can bet your bottom dollar that Twilight won't make their friends any more accepting or encouraging of seeing their friend getting hurt by someone who is supposed to love them.

In case people hadn't noticed tween girls also know there is no such thing as vampires and werewolves, even though the books say there are and they want to date human chicks.

Give the kids some credit guys, they're not as dumb as we sometimes assume.

[j3nzie]

Not that I'm disagreeing with you re: Disney, but addressing your "Disney always..." statements, didn't Pocahontas decline John Smith's request that she join him across the ocean in order to lead her tribe? *cringing, 'cause I really wasn't nuts about that movie*

[julietvalcouer]

Or one could argue that, for all the liberties they took they couldn't in the end ignore that Pocahontas doesn't marry Smith, she marries John Rolfe, so the decision to stay comes down to historical accuracy.

[mikepictor]

You may enjoy
http://www.thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/thedudette/nostalgia-chick/12823-mulan

[clynne]

I agree with Jenzie here. And I think the problems with the Beauty and the Beast movie actually are problems with the original story.

Which is actually true of a lot of stuff -- it's not just Twilight that trains our teenaged girls that abusive relationships are really twoo wuv. I read a crapton of teen novels, and many of them teach girls to be strong, think for themselves, not accept being subordinate in their love relationships, etc. Unfortunately, the ones that get made into movies seem to be the ones that encourage broken, abusive behaviors. Even when the strong books get turned into movies, a lot of the time the requirement for a Hunky Love Interest with Lots of Screen Time means the stories get rewritten badly, and end up with these weirdly abusive plotlines.

[mikepictor]

"She was not meant to be a servant."

so...who is meant to be one?

[j3nzie]

Although in our current society it is not the case, we must remember that in the time period the fairy tales were written there was a "servant" class of people. In the case of women, to get out of that class you needed to “marry well” if possible. In the case of men, it was rare to rise above that class.

These people were born into this class, and despite their desire to change their circumstances, opportunities to do so did not exist.

It was considered socially unacceptable for a prince, specifically the heir to the throne, to marry a servant. What I was stating by saying she was not meant to be a servant was that she was not born into that class. She was forced to become a servant in her own home, her father's home. I do not believe she was a noble, but her father was not poor and had she been at her appropriate status should would have been invited to court and may have had the opportunity to meet the prince anyway.

So point being, no one should have had to be a servant or have been meant to be a servant, but throughout history people were. It is similar to those that were born into slavery, such as Jews born while living in Egypt. It is not right, but it was a fact of life for many people for entirely too long.