agender vs. nonbinary

[kanzeon_2040]

Here we go, a debate for the 21st Century!  If such debates piss you off, feel free to skip it!

I did join the agender subreddit, and it is pretty similar to the nonbinary subreddit, but with a bit more of a gender abolitionist vibe.  I'd say plenty of overlap exists between people who would identify as nonbinary and people who would identify as

Comments

[kanzeon_2040]

I think part of it is probably a result of the relative wealth of the US and the way we conduct our higher education - that a large chunk of our young adults have all their material worries taken care of with plenty of time to consider academic debates about race and gender and the role of these concepts in our society and history. I fit into this category as well, with my professional job that requires no more than 40 hours per week of attention while providing a generous income. Being a gay male worked for me for decades, it's not like I "needed" to tinker with my gender identity.

Another part is probably a result of the Internet and social media, the way that people can fine tune their information bubbles and interact with micro-affinity groups online. What used to be an isolated queer person here and there, is now a group who can organize with each other across time and space, debating the reasons why they're different from the norm, coming up with their own online cultures that are somewhat unmoored from anybody's daily life. This is happening with other kinds of minority groups, not only gender minorities. And not only minorities on the Left.

I do have a background worry that this is all sort of a cultural foam (a profusion of cultural bubbles) that will wash away when the conservative authoritarians regain firm control of the government and take us unapologetically back to the religious patriarchy of the pre-20th Century. Gender norms developed for historical reasons (having to do with physical strength and the relative costs of childbirth for male and female parents), and universal suffrage is a terribly new concept in human history.

Bottom line - right now the social media algorithms in the US are in the hands of private capitalists who encourage this cultural foam because they profit from the user engagement that results. When the algorithms are taken over by the state - as we can see in other countries already - their goals will be different and their results will be supportive of the regime. Authoritarian regimes like for people to know their place, and both gender and race are great tools for this, along with state religions and/or official party doctrines.

[matrixmann]

I see you know your cause...

In that point, European and overseas way to think differ significantly, I think.
Europe didn't get these subculture filter bubbles until smartphones and the big social media platforms that are known today became part of the mainstream culture. At least not that they became that big to overshadow and intrude other spheres, occupied by common man's worries.
And European history and cultural development is far older than US-American's.

Therefore, the "standard" is here to talk and to achieve certainty, regard oneself with more differentiated eyes. And not be eager to change your identity labels every few years because the old ones don't seem to sut anymore. - On top, not making you fit into identity labels you found, but just find identity labels to explain to you why you are the way you are, and then be done with it. Coming back to one's previous accumulation of character and putting more emphasizing on that, rather than the label.

(The only time in life this is regarded as "normal" here, that's youth - when you try to find your place in society and find out who you are yourself.)