busy on Reddit ...
I made a controversial post in the polyamory subreddit about my anti-monogamy views. It drew a wide variety of comments, most of which I tried to respond to calmly and appropriately.
Some people agreed with me, some had interesting quibbles over terminology, some wanted to discuss some of the psychological and cultural reasons people pursue monogamy. One person took issue with exactly three words of mine -- like I needed her to be my editor, LOL.
But a few expressed offense that I would elevate polyamory over monogamy as though poly people are more evolved and more ethical.
One person seemed especially ticked off at me and asserted that I should get therapy to address why I can't accept monogamy as a valid lifestyle that is equivalent to polyamory -- she compared my position to men who are hostile against women, or whites who are hostile against blacks, or even gays who are hostile against bisexuals.
I tried to explain that my hostility, as such, was not a persistent or obnoxious thing, that I don't pick on monogamous people in real life, just that I was trying to explain to a group of other polys why I reacted in a hostile way to a particular Reddit post a few days ago -- and that underlying my surprising hostility is my belief that monogamy is irrational at best, and totalitarian at worst.
I think I split the polyamory community down the center -- about half of them agree that there is something fundamentally wrong with monogamy, while the other half think that both monogamy and polyamory are Equally Valid lifestyles.
Some in the Equally Valid faction argued that we polys should be tolerant and accepting of monogamy if we want them to be tolerant and accepting of us.
But there were plenty of folks who agreed with me that monogamy is a harmful cultural hegemony.
I was most surprised by the people who tried to burrow deeply into my head to prove to me that I need therapy, LOL. Based on one post! It reminded me of how the Soviet Union sent some of its political dissenters to psychiatric hospitals -- something must be wrong with my brain if I persist in thinking that polyamory is superior to monogamy, instead of treating both as Equally Valid.
One person argued that relationship structures are neutral, that the important thing is to have good communication skills with your partner(s) -- whatever your relationship structure might be. I said, good point about communication skills, but I still think certain relationship structures are unhealthy. I've written before in my LJ that I don't think the "relationship" should be more important than the people who inhabit the relationship. Relationships are mere abstractions, fictions we employ to organize our lives. If they aren't working, discard them.
By the end of the day, a couple folks from the polyamory group had wandered over to look at my pics on the other subreddit, and decided to flirt with me, LOL.
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I guess if I thought monogamy and polyamory were Equally Valid, I would not have abandoned monogamy so long ago, I'd have been willing to try it with guys who preferred it, just as I'm willing to try many varieties of kink, just as I'm willing to be either a Top or a Bottom. But I have issues with monogamy. But does that mean monogamy is evil, or just that it doesn't fit my own life?
One commenter said that I seem more than personally hostile to monogamy, that I view it as oppressive in general, that I'm hostile to it because of its effects on a class of individuals.
Yes, I think this is true, that I view monogamy similar to capitalism, also similar to credentialism, also similar to: burning carbon, sexual assault, racism, sexism, homophobia, militarism, Catholicism -- I view monogamy as a societal ill, a source of evil.
A couple people said, what if we personally accept that non-monogamy is best, but we2 choose to have only a closed couple, because that's all we have time and energy for right now? That's fine by me, whatever you want. I'm not going to limit your relationship choices.
But others insisted that monogamy is an Equally Valid choice. Here I said stuff like, if it is a truly informed and consensual choice, knowing about the alternatives, and without pressure from your family, work place, and religion. But how many people study non-monogamous relationship alternatives before they say, "I do"? How many people feel their parents and employers would accept them just the same as either mono or poly?
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Most interesting, though, were the people who commented -- like I've said before -- that the issue isn't mono vs poly, the issue is closed vs open. Yeah ...
True, I'm also hostile toward closed poly systems. What I'm really hostile toward is the idea that people have to get permission from their spouse(s) to have other relationships. What I'm hostile toward is the idea that one person's expressed jealousy should control the behaviors of another person.
The control rod for any relationship should be the positive relationship agreements and boundaries that people set as part of their relationship. It shouldn't be the negative restrictions that people place upon others. That's what it comes down to, for me. Relationships should be additive, in that we focus upon the stuff we like to do together and the stuff we like about each other and the support we give each other -- not subtractive, not about telling our partners what they can't do and who they can't do it with.
It is a form of relationship anarchy that I'm advocating, and I do -- for better or for worse -- think it is superior to monogamy. Just like a political anarchist would advocate that anarchism is superior to capitalism -- not that anarchism and capitalism are Equally Valid choices.
Just like an atheist would advocate that atheism is superior to Catholicism -- not that atheism and Catholicism are Equally Valid choices.
It is a polemical stance I offer, not a welcoming stance.
So, a couple people worried that new visitors to the group would see my post and feel unwelcome.
OMG! For somebody like me who grew up at times and places when being gay was not welcome ... to hear monogamists complain that they don't feel welcome on a subreddit about polyamory ... y'all are the dominant group, and you're conducting a virtual safari into the exotic land of polyamory message boards ... and you want to feel Welcome in this exotic land, you want to feel your own choices are Equally Valid, and that polyamorous people feel no ill will toward you. As though poly people are Ghandi and MLK, having joined hands to welcome our oppressors with love.
That wasn't me, not today, LOL. Maybe another day.
Some people agreed with me, some had interesting quibbles over terminology, some wanted to discuss some of the psychological and cultural reasons people pursue monogamy. One person took issue with exactly three words of mine -- like I needed her to be my editor, LOL.
But a few expressed offense that I would elevate polyamory over monogamy as though poly people are more evolved and more ethical.
One person seemed especially ticked off at me and asserted that I should get therapy to address why I can't accept monogamy as a valid lifestyle that is equivalent to polyamory -- she compared my position to men who are hostile against women, or whites who are hostile against blacks, or even gays who are hostile against bisexuals.
I tried to explain that my hostility, as such, was not a persistent or obnoxious thing, that I don't pick on monogamous people in real life, just that I was trying to explain to a group of other polys why I reacted in a hostile way to a particular Reddit post a few days ago -- and that underlying my surprising hostility is my belief that monogamy is irrational at best, and totalitarian at worst.
I think I split the polyamory community down the center -- about half of them agree that there is something fundamentally wrong with monogamy, while the other half think that both monogamy and polyamory are Equally Valid lifestyles.
Some in the Equally Valid faction argued that we polys should be tolerant and accepting of monogamy if we want them to be tolerant and accepting of us.
But there were plenty of folks who agreed with me that monogamy is a harmful cultural hegemony.
I was most surprised by the people who tried to burrow deeply into my head to prove to me that I need therapy, LOL. Based on one post! It reminded me of how the Soviet Union sent some of its political dissenters to psychiatric hospitals -- something must be wrong with my brain if I persist in thinking that polyamory is superior to monogamy, instead of treating both as Equally Valid.
One person argued that relationship structures are neutral, that the important thing is to have good communication skills with your partner(s) -- whatever your relationship structure might be. I said, good point about communication skills, but I still think certain relationship structures are unhealthy. I've written before in my LJ that I don't think the "relationship" should be more important than the people who inhabit the relationship. Relationships are mere abstractions, fictions we employ to organize our lives. If they aren't working, discard them.
By the end of the day, a couple folks from the polyamory group had wandered over to look at my pics on the other subreddit, and decided to flirt with me, LOL.
-----
I guess if I thought monogamy and polyamory were Equally Valid, I would not have abandoned monogamy so long ago, I'd have been willing to try it with guys who preferred it, just as I'm willing to try many varieties of kink, just as I'm willing to be either a Top or a Bottom. But I have issues with monogamy. But does that mean monogamy is evil, or just that it doesn't fit my own life?
One commenter said that I seem more than personally hostile to monogamy, that I view it as oppressive in general, that I'm hostile to it because of its effects on a class of individuals.
Yes, I think this is true, that I view monogamy similar to capitalism, also similar to credentialism, also similar to: burning carbon, sexual assault, racism, sexism, homophobia, militarism, Catholicism -- I view monogamy as a societal ill, a source of evil.
A couple people said, what if we personally accept that non-monogamy is best, but we2 choose to have only a closed couple, because that's all we have time and energy for right now? That's fine by me, whatever you want. I'm not going to limit your relationship choices.
But others insisted that monogamy is an Equally Valid choice. Here I said stuff like, if it is a truly informed and consensual choice, knowing about the alternatives, and without pressure from your family, work place, and religion. But how many people study non-monogamous relationship alternatives before they say, "I do"? How many people feel their parents and employers would accept them just the same as either mono or poly?
-----
Most interesting, though, were the people who commented -- like I've said before -- that the issue isn't mono vs poly, the issue is closed vs open. Yeah ...
True, I'm also hostile toward closed poly systems. What I'm really hostile toward is the idea that people have to get permission from their spouse(s) to have other relationships. What I'm hostile toward is the idea that one person's expressed jealousy should control the behaviors of another person.
The control rod for any relationship should be the positive relationship agreements and boundaries that people set as part of their relationship. It shouldn't be the negative restrictions that people place upon others. That's what it comes down to, for me. Relationships should be additive, in that we focus upon the stuff we like to do together and the stuff we like about each other and the support we give each other -- not subtractive, not about telling our partners what they can't do and who they can't do it with.
It is a form of relationship anarchy that I'm advocating, and I do -- for better or for worse -- think it is superior to monogamy. Just like a political anarchist would advocate that anarchism is superior to capitalism -- not that anarchism and capitalism are Equally Valid choices.
Just like an atheist would advocate that atheism is superior to Catholicism -- not that atheism and Catholicism are Equally Valid choices.
It is a polemical stance I offer, not a welcoming stance.
So, a couple people worried that new visitors to the group would see my post and feel unwelcome.
OMG! For somebody like me who grew up at times and places when being gay was not welcome ... to hear monogamists complain that they don't feel welcome on a subreddit about polyamory ... y'all are the dominant group, and you're conducting a virtual safari into the exotic land of polyamory message boards ... and you want to feel Welcome in this exotic land, you want to feel your own choices are Equally Valid, and that polyamorous people feel no ill will toward you. As though poly people are Ghandi and MLK, having joined hands to welcome our oppressors with love.
That wasn't me, not today, LOL. Maybe another day.