Soapbox time (statistics optional)
I should know better than to read the Have Your Say section of the BBC website, but I got very little sleep last night and more or less clicked on the wrong link.
HYS: Koran protest on hold: Your Reactions
I'm not actually talking about the book-burning itself, which seems like a media gift-horse for a crazy man who should have been ignored. I'm talking about the idiots weighing in on the discussion. Dear ignorant bigots, let's get a few things clear:
1. It's a protest against a mosque being built on Ground Zero.
Nobody is building a 'mosque' on Ground Zero. It's an Islamic Cultural Centre, and it will be in Manhattan, and relatively close to Ground Zero, but not ON GRound Zero, which will be a memorial. People remembered that it will be a memorial. The press reported on a mosque being built on GRound Zero. So this became conflated into 'a memorial mosque on Ground Zero'.
What else is in proximity to Ground Zero? Everything up to and including strip clubs and gay clubs. And yet no one seems to know this. It's the equivalent of the UK protesting the opening of an Islamic bookshop (which has as much in common with a mosque as a cultural centre does) near one of the 7/7 sites (which are in Central London and it is almost impossible to avoid proxity to one of them) with the headline, "Mosque to be built on 7/7 site". Where is the cultural centre going to be built? Several streets away. You will notice that the map labels the proposed site as that for an Islamic cultural centre, while the rest of the article uses the word 'mosque'. Bad show, BBC.
2. This is free speech, like the Danish cartoons.
This is what the artist of the cartoons had to say about the proposed burning: "Satire is provocation. Provocation should lead to reflection, to enlightenment, to knowledge. In this case, this is really not the case."
Free speech? Well, he was allowed to go ahead with the burning, but apparently some confusion over not recognising different imams led him to think some sort of deal had been struck and to suspend it. You know what would be a violation of free speech? Banning someone planning permission to build a cultural centre based on their religion. Preventing someone from practising their religion peacefully. Preventing people from speaking about Islam and the cultures of the millions of different people around the globe that it embraces.
3. Islam is some other country's religion
Newsflash: while Islam may be the official religion of several countries (not all of which are in the Midle East, shock horror), religion is not bound by official borders. There are Muslims in America, just as there are Christians in Iran.
It makes me think. Putting to one side the reaction outside the US, very little has been heard from American Muslims on this. I wonder why an entire section of society remains silent on an issue that would doubtless cause offense. When groups remain silent, it makes me wonder just how free the free speech really is.
4. Christianity doesn't teach "and eye for an eye any more", whereas death sentences are common in Muslim countries, and this is a protest against that.
Look. Lets look at this logically. There are 58 countries that retained the death penalty in 2009, most of which did not use it. But let's look at these 58, and see whether they are indeed Muslim countries.
So -
Some stuff on what isn't included in the list below (using the Amnesty definitions):
Abolitionist in practice: Countries which retain the death penalty for ordinary crimes such as murder but can be considered abolitionist in practice in that they have not executed anyone during the past 10 years and are believed to have a policy or established practice of not carrying out executions.The list also includes countries which have made an international commitment not to use the death penalty. These are: Algeria, Benin, Brunei, Burkina Faso, Cameroon, Central African Republic, Congo (Republic of), Eritrea, Gabon, Gambia, Ghana, Grenada, Kenya, Laos, Liberia, Madagascar, Malawi, Maldives, Mali, Mauritania, Morocco, Myanmar, Nauru, Niger, Papua New Guinea, Russian Federation, South Korea, Sri Lanka, Suriname, Swaziland, Tajikistan, Tanzania, Tonga, Tunisia, Zambia. They are not included in the list below.
Abolitionist for ordinary crimes only: Countries whose laws provide for the death penalty only for exceptional crimes such as crimes under military law or crimes committed in exceptional circumstances. These are: Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, El Salvador, Fiji, Israel, Kazakstan, Latvia, Peru. I have not included them in the table below.
Country
Official Religion (as per the Encyclopaedia Britannica)Known executions in 2009 (as per Amnesty International)1 AghanistanIslamnone2 Antigua & BarbudaSecular (no official religion)none3 BahamasSecular (no official religion)none4 BahrainIslamnone5 BangladeshIslam36 BarbadosSecular (no official religion)none7 BelarusSecular (no official religion)none8 BelizeSecular (no official religion)none9 BotswanaSecular (no official religion)110 ChinaSecular (no official religion)unknown, likely to run in the thousands11 ComorosIslamnone12 Democratic Republic of the CongoSecular (no official religion)none13 CubaSecular (no official religion)none14 DominicaSecular (no official religion)none15 EgyptIslam (actually, this is untrue. Although Egypt's laws are based on Shari'a, I don't think that Islam is the official religion.)at least 516 Equatorial GuineaSecular (no official religion)none17 EthiopiaSecular (no official religion)none18 GuatemalaSecular (no official religion)none19 GuineaSecular (no official religion)none20 GuyanaSecular (no official religion)none21 IndiaSecular (no official religion)none22 Indonesiamonotheism (? not sure what this means in practice, tbh)none23 IranIslamat least 38824 IraqIslamat least 12025 JamaicaSecular (no official religion)none26 JapanSecular (no official religion)727 JordanIslamnone28 KuwaitIslamnone29 LebanonSecular (no official religion)none30 LesothoChristianitynone31 LibyaIslamat least 432 MalaysiaIslamunknown number (+)33 MongoliaSecular (no official religion)none34 NigeriaSecular (no official religion)none35 North KoreaSecular (no official religion)unknown number (+)36 OmanIslamnone37 PakistanIslamnone38 Palestinian Authorityunknown (not listed)
none39 QatarIslamnone40 Saint Kitts and NevisSecular (no official religion)none41 Saint LuciaSecular (no official religion)none42 Saint Vincent and the GrenadinesSecular (no official religion)none43 Saudi ArabiaIslamat least 6944 Sierra LeoneSecular (no official religion)none45 SingaporeSecular (no official religion)146 SomaliaIslamnone47 SudanIslam (although Islamic law is applicable to Muslims only)at least 948 SyriaSecular (no official religion)at least 849 TaiwanSecular (no official religion)250 ThailandSecular (no official religion)none51 Trinidad and TobagoSecular (no official religion)none52 UgandaSecular (no official religion)none53 United Arab EmiratesIslamnone54 United States of AmericaSecular (no official religion)5255 Viet NamSecular (no official religion)at least 956 YemenIslamat least 3057 ZimbabweSecular (no official religion)none58 ChadSecular (no official religion)none Total:at least 714, excluding the thousands in China
Want more stats?
At least 2001 people were sentenced to death in 56 countries in 2009
The true number is much higher: Afghanistan (at least 133), Algeria (at least 100), Bahamas (at least 2),
Bangladesh (at least 64), Belarus (2), Benin (at least 5), Botswana (2), Burkina Faso (at least 6), Chad (+),
China (+), Democratic Republic of Congo (+), Egypt (at least 269), Ethiopia (at least 11), Gambia (at least 1),
Ghana (at least 7), Guyana (3), India (at least 50), Indonesia (1), Iran (+), Iraq (at least 366), Jamaica (2),
Japan (34), Jordan (at least 12), Kenya (+), Kuwait (at least 3), Liberia (3), Libya (+), Malaysia (at least 68),
Mali (at least 10), Mauritania (at least 1), Morocco/Western Sahara (13), Myanmar (at least 2), Nigeria (58),
North Korea (+), Pakistan (276), Palestinian Authority (17), Qatar (at least 3), Saudi Arabia (at least 11),
Sierra Leone (at least 1), Singapore (at least 6), Somalia (12, six of which in Puntland and six within the
jurisdiction of the Transitional Federal Government), South Korea (at least 5), Sri Lanka (108), Sudan (at least
60), Syria (at least 7), Taiwan (7), Tanzania (+), Thailand (+), Trinidad and Tobago (at least 11), Tunisia (at
least 2), Uganda (+), United Arab Emirates (at least 3), USA (at least 105), Viet Nam (at least 59), Yemen (at
least 53), Zimbabwe (at least 7).
Get a full breakdown here.
So what do these figures show us? Of the 58 countries who still execuse people for ordinary crimes (e.g. murder), 19 have Islam as the official religion, 1 has Christianity, 2 have other or not specified, and the majority - 36 countries - are secular ones, with no official religion.
Of those 58 countries, only 18 actually carried out executions in 2009. 9 of those were Islamic countries, and the rest were secular. The overwhelming majority of executions were carried out in China, a secular country, with thousands of executions. The next-largest number are in Iran, with 388+ executions.
The USA (population 370m, 2009 census), a secular country, carried out more executions (52) than the Islamic countries of Bangladesh (160m population, 3 executions), Egypt (81.5m population, 5+ executions), Sudan (41m population, 9+ executions), and Yemen (23m population, 30+ executions) put together. Anyone doing the maths, that's 370m vs c. 300m, so if we're looking per capita, the USA executed slightly less people per capita than some of the poorest Islamic countries in the world.
In other words, the correlation between religion and the death penalty is rather weak (caveat: I haven't bothered to run a real correlation analysis on this because I really need to have a shower and breakfast, also, I am busting for the loo). I will bet you real money that the correlation between a dictatorial system of government and widespread poverty and the death penalty (and its use) is much stronger.
*
Stepping back from the statistics for a moment, where on earth did you see this guy protesting anything other than the sheer existence of Islam?! Ascribing to him any motives other than wanting his 15 minutes of fame is giving him way too much credit.
This entry was originally posted at DreamWidth. There are
comments there. Comments are welcome at either journal.
HYS: Koran protest on hold: Your Reactions
I'm not actually talking about the book-burning itself, which seems like a media gift-horse for a crazy man who should have been ignored. I'm talking about the idiots weighing in on the discussion. Dear ignorant bigots, let's get a few things clear:
1. It's a protest against a mosque being built on Ground Zero.
Nobody is building a 'mosque' on Ground Zero. It's an Islamic Cultural Centre, and it will be in Manhattan, and relatively close to Ground Zero, but not ON GRound Zero, which will be a memorial. People remembered that it will be a memorial. The press reported on a mosque being built on GRound Zero. So this became conflated into 'a memorial mosque on Ground Zero'.
What else is in proximity to Ground Zero? Everything up to and including strip clubs and gay clubs. And yet no one seems to know this. It's the equivalent of the UK protesting the opening of an Islamic bookshop (which has as much in common with a mosque as a cultural centre does) near one of the 7/7 sites (which are in Central London and it is almost impossible to avoid proxity to one of them) with the headline, "Mosque to be built on 7/7 site". Where is the cultural centre going to be built? Several streets away. You will notice that the map labels the proposed site as that for an Islamic cultural centre, while the rest of the article uses the word 'mosque'. Bad show, BBC.
2. This is free speech, like the Danish cartoons.
This is what the artist of the cartoons had to say about the proposed burning: "Satire is provocation. Provocation should lead to reflection, to enlightenment, to knowledge. In this case, this is really not the case."
Free speech? Well, he was allowed to go ahead with the burning, but apparently some confusion over not recognising different imams led him to think some sort of deal had been struck and to suspend it. You know what would be a violation of free speech? Banning someone planning permission to build a cultural centre based on their religion. Preventing someone from practising their religion peacefully. Preventing people from speaking about Islam and the cultures of the millions of different people around the globe that it embraces.
3. Islam is some other country's religion
Newsflash: while Islam may be the official religion of several countries (not all of which are in the Midle East, shock horror), religion is not bound by official borders. There are Muslims in America, just as there are Christians in Iran.
It makes me think. Putting to one side the reaction outside the US, very little has been heard from American Muslims on this. I wonder why an entire section of society remains silent on an issue that would doubtless cause offense. When groups remain silent, it makes me wonder just how free the free speech really is.
4. Christianity doesn't teach "and eye for an eye any more", whereas death sentences are common in Muslim countries, and this is a protest against that.
Look. Lets look at this logically. There are 58 countries that retained the death penalty in 2009, most of which did not use it. But let's look at these 58, and see whether they are indeed Muslim countries.
So -
Some stuff on what isn't included in the list below (using the Amnesty definitions):
Abolitionist in practice: Countries which retain the death penalty for ordinary crimes such as murder but can be considered abolitionist in practice in that they have not executed anyone during the past 10 years and are believed to have a policy or established practice of not carrying out executions.The list also includes countries which have made an international commitment not to use the death penalty. These are: Algeria, Benin, Brunei, Burkina Faso, Cameroon, Central African Republic, Congo (Republic of), Eritrea, Gabon, Gambia, Ghana, Grenada, Kenya, Laos, Liberia, Madagascar, Malawi, Maldives, Mali, Mauritania, Morocco, Myanmar, Nauru, Niger, Papua New Guinea, Russian Federation, South Korea, Sri Lanka, Suriname, Swaziland, Tajikistan, Tanzania, Tonga, Tunisia, Zambia. They are not included in the list below.
Abolitionist for ordinary crimes only: Countries whose laws provide for the death penalty only for exceptional crimes such as crimes under military law or crimes committed in exceptional circumstances. These are: Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, El Salvador, Fiji, Israel, Kazakstan, Latvia, Peru. I have not included them in the table below.
Country
Official Religion (as per the Encyclopaedia Britannica)Known executions in 2009 (as per Amnesty International)1 AghanistanIslamnone2 Antigua & BarbudaSecular (no official religion)none3 BahamasSecular (no official religion)none4 BahrainIslamnone5 BangladeshIslam36 BarbadosSecular (no official religion)none7 BelarusSecular (no official religion)none8 BelizeSecular (no official religion)none9 BotswanaSecular (no official religion)110 ChinaSecular (no official religion)unknown, likely to run in the thousands11 ComorosIslamnone12 Democratic Republic of the CongoSecular (no official religion)none13 CubaSecular (no official religion)none14 DominicaSecular (no official religion)none15 EgyptIslam (actually, this is untrue. Although Egypt's laws are based on Shari'a, I don't think that Islam is the official religion.)at least 516 Equatorial GuineaSecular (no official religion)none17 EthiopiaSecular (no official religion)none18 GuatemalaSecular (no official religion)none19 GuineaSecular (no official religion)none20 GuyanaSecular (no official religion)none21 IndiaSecular (no official religion)none22 Indonesiamonotheism (? not sure what this means in practice, tbh)none23 IranIslamat least 38824 IraqIslamat least 12025 JamaicaSecular (no official religion)none26 JapanSecular (no official religion)727 JordanIslamnone28 KuwaitIslamnone29 LebanonSecular (no official religion)none30 LesothoChristianitynone31 LibyaIslamat least 432 MalaysiaIslamunknown number (+)33 MongoliaSecular (no official religion)none34 NigeriaSecular (no official religion)none35 North KoreaSecular (no official religion)unknown number (+)36 OmanIslamnone37 PakistanIslamnone38 Palestinian Authorityunknown (not listed)
none39 QatarIslamnone40 Saint Kitts and NevisSecular (no official religion)none41 Saint LuciaSecular (no official religion)none42 Saint Vincent and the GrenadinesSecular (no official religion)none43 Saudi ArabiaIslamat least 6944 Sierra LeoneSecular (no official religion)none45 SingaporeSecular (no official religion)146 SomaliaIslamnone47 SudanIslam (although Islamic law is applicable to Muslims only)at least 948 SyriaSecular (no official religion)at least 849 TaiwanSecular (no official religion)250 ThailandSecular (no official religion)none51 Trinidad and TobagoSecular (no official religion)none52 UgandaSecular (no official religion)none53 United Arab EmiratesIslamnone54 United States of AmericaSecular (no official religion)5255 Viet NamSecular (no official religion)at least 956 YemenIslamat least 3057 ZimbabweSecular (no official religion)none58 ChadSecular (no official religion)none Total:at least 714, excluding the thousands in China
Want more stats?
At least 2001 people were sentenced to death in 56 countries in 2009
The true number is much higher: Afghanistan (at least 133), Algeria (at least 100), Bahamas (at least 2),
Bangladesh (at least 64), Belarus (2), Benin (at least 5), Botswana (2), Burkina Faso (at least 6), Chad (+),
China (+), Democratic Republic of Congo (+), Egypt (at least 269), Ethiopia (at least 11), Gambia (at least 1),
Ghana (at least 7), Guyana (3), India (at least 50), Indonesia (1), Iran (+), Iraq (at least 366), Jamaica (2),
Japan (34), Jordan (at least 12), Kenya (+), Kuwait (at least 3), Liberia (3), Libya (+), Malaysia (at least 68),
Mali (at least 10), Mauritania (at least 1), Morocco/Western Sahara (13), Myanmar (at least 2), Nigeria (58),
North Korea (+), Pakistan (276), Palestinian Authority (17), Qatar (at least 3), Saudi Arabia (at least 11),
Sierra Leone (at least 1), Singapore (at least 6), Somalia (12, six of which in Puntland and six within the
jurisdiction of the Transitional Federal Government), South Korea (at least 5), Sri Lanka (108), Sudan (at least
60), Syria (at least 7), Taiwan (7), Tanzania (+), Thailand (+), Trinidad and Tobago (at least 11), Tunisia (at
least 2), Uganda (+), United Arab Emirates (at least 3), USA (at least 105), Viet Nam (at least 59), Yemen (at
least 53), Zimbabwe (at least 7).
Get a full breakdown here.
So what do these figures show us? Of the 58 countries who still execuse people for ordinary crimes (e.g. murder), 19 have Islam as the official religion, 1 has Christianity, 2 have other or not specified, and the majority - 36 countries - are secular ones, with no official religion.
Of those 58 countries, only 18 actually carried out executions in 2009. 9 of those were Islamic countries, and the rest were secular. The overwhelming majority of executions were carried out in China, a secular country, with thousands of executions. The next-largest number are in Iran, with 388+ executions.
The USA (population 370m, 2009 census), a secular country, carried out more executions (52) than the Islamic countries of Bangladesh (160m population, 3 executions), Egypt (81.5m population, 5+ executions), Sudan (41m population, 9+ executions), and Yemen (23m population, 30+ executions) put together. Anyone doing the maths, that's 370m vs c. 300m, so if we're looking per capita, the USA executed slightly less people per capita than some of the poorest Islamic countries in the world.
In other words, the correlation between religion and the death penalty is rather weak (caveat: I haven't bothered to run a real correlation analysis on this because I really need to have a shower and breakfast, also, I am busting for the loo). I will bet you real money that the correlation between a dictatorial system of government and widespread poverty and the death penalty (and its use) is much stronger.
*
Stepping back from the statistics for a moment, where on earth did you see this guy protesting anything other than the sheer existence of Islam?! Ascribing to him any motives other than wanting his 15 minutes of fame is giving him way too much credit.
This entry was originally posted at DreamWidth. There are
comments there. Comments are welcome at either journal.