I will take this on from my own point of view and nobody elses.
Marriage = 1.)a formal agreement between two companies or enterprises to combine operations, resources, etc., for mutual benefit; merger.
2.)any close or intimate association or union: the marriage of words and music in a hit song.
3.)a blending or matching of different elements or components.
4.) a piece of antique furniture assembled from components of two or more authentic pieces.
and yes there are also the traditional definitions of Man and wife joining together etc.
My point in this is that the word "Marriage" is NOT limited solely to a religion or religions. So yes in that sense... 2 men or 2 women CAN be married.
I have stated before that I am a non-believer of ANY god. Yet my marriage is valid. And why is there such an uproar over what someone else wants to do?
We live in a free country (To most extents) and I believe that in order to live in a free country... you must deal with or put up with others that don't agree with your way of thinking. It just needs to be accepted. Regardless of your beliefs.
That being said... do you have the right to voice your differing oppinion? Absolutely. Do you have the right to enforce your moral codes on others? Absolutely Not. (Again... MY opinion.)
As for the religeous aspect of the bashing... I do not believe that actual threats are acceptable. Threats on anyone for whatever their belief is wrong. At the same time... there are many idiosyncrasies that I see with any and ALL religeons. But that's what seperates those that do belive and me. Those that believe, have faith that what they believe is correct. Without ANY proof. So bashing is not necessary... but an open discussion of what may sound ludicrous to one person is not that bad.
(Basically, if you are ok talking about your religion in a good light... you should be prepared for someone to come along and show how they see it as well... and if it's in a negative light... that is their opinion and are welcome to it as well.)
I'm probably rambling... but I think we've had this part of a conversation before as well. So I'll stop here. If anything I said is taken offensively, I'm sorry it was unintended. And conversly, if I said anything (most likely) confusing... ask and I shall TRY to clarify. (It's been a looooong day.)
No worries, I know you intend discussion, not offence. And in the interest of discussion...
I have no problems with people having differing opinions, which I hope you know by now--it just seems to me that more and more if you want to be considered 'politically correct', you have to sign up to a whole list of things to believe in, whether or not you really believe in them. Isn't that rather like joining an organized religion? So they worship political correctness instead of God, and claim to be so open minded and tolerant, but when it comes down to it, they're the Spanish Inquisition all over again. Or maybe 600 AD muslims with their "Convert or Die" policy.
A friend of mine said the gay rights groups want to bring up hate-crime charges against the church for encouraging people to vote 'yes' on Prop 8. If it had gone the other way, do you really think we would have started protesting and causing problems? No. We would have gone on to the next legal step without all the fuss or targeting. If it had continued to be rejected, we would have just accepted the new law of the state. Seriously, that's our Constitution, and we support it. There were at least 8 different churches that were part of the coalition to pass prop 8, but my church is the most visible so we're the ones that get attacked.
And I'm thinking, if we have to be attacked for standing up for what we believe in, it's not like it's the first time. We were driven out of five different states and forced to start over in the desert in the 1800's. We have been persecuted, raped, and killed because of what we believe in. In this centurey we have been refused jobs, had our integrity brought into question, and refused service at different establishments because of who we are. Bring it on. We'll see who gets charged with hate crimes.
As for people talking trash about my religion, they've been doing that for the last 180 years or so. We usually ignore it (unless our lives are in danger), and try to respectfully answer honest questions about what we truly believe in. We respect that. We encourage people to find out the truth before making judgement calls, but if they'd rather listen to lies that's their perogative. No, my issue this time is that people who claim to be so tolerant are really just hypocrites. They're using the same tactics their persecuters used, but it's 'ok' because they're a 'minority'. Yeah, they outnumber the number of mormons in the state of California, and *they* are the minority? Sure, that makes sense.
Marriage = 1.)a formal agreement between two companies or enterprises to combine operations, resources, etc., for mutual benefit; merger.
2.)any close or intimate association or union: the marriage of words and music in a hit song.
3.)a blending or matching of different elements or components.
4.) a piece of antique furniture assembled from components of two or more authentic pieces.
and yes there are also the traditional definitions of Man and wife joining together etc.
My point in this is that the word "Marriage" is NOT limited solely to a religion or religions. So yes in that sense... 2 men or 2 women CAN be married.
I have stated before that I am a non-believer of ANY god. Yet my marriage is valid. And why is there such an uproar over what someone else wants to do?
We live in a free country (To most extents) and I believe that in order to live in a free country... you must deal with or put up with others that don't agree with your way of thinking. It just needs to be accepted. Regardless of your beliefs.
That being said... do you have the right to voice your differing oppinion? Absolutely. Do you have the right to enforce your moral codes on others? Absolutely Not. (Again... MY opinion.)
As for the religeous aspect of the bashing... I do not believe that actual threats are acceptable. Threats on anyone for whatever their belief is wrong. At the same time... there are many idiosyncrasies that I see with any and ALL religeons. But that's what seperates those that do belive and me. Those that believe, have faith that what they believe is correct. Without ANY proof. So bashing is not necessary... but an open discussion of what may sound ludicrous to one person is not that bad.
(Basically, if you are ok talking about your religion in a good light... you should be prepared for someone to come along and show how they see it as well... and if it's in a negative light... that is their opinion and are welcome to it as well.)
I'm probably rambling... but I think we've had this part of a conversation before as well. So I'll stop here. If anything I said is taken offensively, I'm sorry it was unintended. And conversly, if I said anything (most likely) confusing... ask and I shall TRY to clarify. (It's been a looooong day.)
Hugs to you regardless of anything else!
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I have no problems with people having differing opinions, which I hope you know by now--it just seems to me that more and more if you want to be considered 'politically correct', you have to sign up to a whole list of things to believe in, whether or not you really believe in them. Isn't that rather like joining an organized religion? So they worship political correctness instead of God, and claim to be so open minded and tolerant, but when it comes down to it, they're the Spanish Inquisition all over again. Or maybe 600 AD muslims with their "Convert or Die" policy.
A friend of mine said the gay rights groups want to bring up hate-crime charges against the church for encouraging people to vote 'yes' on Prop 8. If it had gone the other way, do you really think we would have started protesting and causing problems? No. We would have gone on to the next legal step without all the fuss or targeting. If it had continued to be rejected, we would have just accepted the new law of the state. Seriously, that's our Constitution, and we support it. There were at least 8 different churches that were part of the coalition to pass prop 8, but my church is the most visible so we're the ones that get attacked.
And I'm thinking, if we have to be attacked for standing up for what we believe in, it's not like it's the first time. We were driven out of five different states and forced to start over in the desert in the 1800's. We have been persecuted, raped, and killed because of what we believe in. In this centurey we have been refused jobs, had our integrity brought into question, and refused service at different establishments because of who we are. Bring it on. We'll see who gets charged with hate crimes.
As for people talking trash about my religion, they've been doing that for the last 180 years or so. We usually ignore it (unless our lives are in danger), and try to respectfully answer honest questions about what we truly believe in. We respect that. We encourage people to find out the truth before making judgement calls, but if they'd rather listen to lies that's their perogative. No, my issue this time is that people who claim to be so tolerant are really just hypocrites. They're using the same tactics their persecuters used, but it's 'ok' because they're a 'minority'. Yeah, they outnumber the number of mormons in the state of California, and *they* are the minority? Sure, that makes sense.
Ok, so now I'm rambling. Your turn :)
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