The Thrawn Trilogy: Dark Force Rising

[joysweeper]

"I have no qualms about accepting a useful idea merely because it wasn't my own."―ThrawnHere's the other half of Dark Force Rising.  First part was here.  You can probably tell that this time I have the book in hand.

Comments

[aaron_bourque]

Cultural differences led to the initial confusion. Maitrakh refers to Khabarakh as (I think) thirdson, which Leia thinks means, literally, "third son." She thus thinks that the maitrakh is Khabarakh's mother, and that Khabarakh has (or had) two older brothers.

She's actually his great-grandmother, since, to a Noghri, thirdson means "son of a son of a firstson."

And, she was a child when the planetary devastation occurred.

So, unless Noghri life cycles are ridiculously short, the devastation occurred decades ago, not the near-decade the droid-renewal would indicate. And thus, Leia gets rightly pissed that the Empire has been stringing along the Noghri for DECADES.

The chemical Leia takes from the droid to dissolve the kholm-grass? Isn't. What. The. Droids. Use. To. Cleanse. Their. Planet. If it was, the droids would have cleansed approximately 5 times as much as they've cleansed. The elders realize that the droids are capable of cleansing their land faster than they've been doing.

What's so great about these books is that, like a really good mystery story, all of the clues are laid out clearly and easily . . . just presented in ways for everyone to draw the exact wrong conclusions.

[valtyr]

Wasn't the Maitrakh pregnant during the devastation? I didn't think it was specified that she was that young, that was what confused me.

Isn't. What. The. Droids. Use. To. Cleanse. Their. Planet.

Er, yes. But as the Noghri don't believe the kholm-grass is what's causing the trouble, why do they care if the droids could be destroying it quicker? Why don't they say 'it takes more than destroying the grass to cleanse the soil'?

[aaron_bourque]

Noghri don't believe the kholm-grass is what's causing the trouble,

The Noghri don't know the kholm-grass are the cause of the problem until they realize that the droids could be clearing it up so much faster. The Noghri think the droids do something else to cleanse the land . . . but they've never seen them do anything with the chemical Leia shows them.

The Noghri elders realize, if the droids really can clear the kholm-grass as fast as the chemical lets them . . . why haven't they in 44 years? They put two and two together and realize that the Empire has been stringing them along, ransoming their young as Death Commandos in exchange for false aid in cleaning their planet.

[valtyr]

See, that doesn't seem like a logical progression to me. Presumably, the droid-cleansed land is free of kholm-grass, so they previously assumed that removing the 'harmless' kholm-grass was a side-effect of the cleansing process. So learning that droids can destroy the kholm-grass, when they already knew the droids did that as part of/a side-effect of their work, I don't see why that would have radically changed their view to 'kholm grass is the bad stuff'.

[aaron_bourque]

See, that doesn't seem like a logical progression to me.

It's actually fairly simply logical. The point is that the droids aren't cleaning the kholm-grass as fast as they can. In all their years with the droids, they've never seen them doing anything with the chemical Leia used, which she took from one of the droids. So if they've got this chemical that can reduce kholm-grass to ash in seconds . . . why aren't they using it?

Because they don't want to actually remove the kholm-grass. Why not?

Because the poison that prevents the growth of other plants on Honoghr is in the kholm-grass, not the soil.

So the Empire, which supplied the droids, is trying to extend the Noghri's dependency on the Empire as long as they can, because they get such capable Death Commandos out of the deal, with almost no expenditure.

[valtyr]

Yes, I know the droids are not clearing the grass as fast as they can, I just don't see why the Noghri would care that they're not, as they believe the grass harmless.

I understand the Empire's plot, I just don't see how the droids being able to quickly destroy the grass exposes it.

[aaron_bourque]

But why have they never seen the droids try the chemical?

[valtyr]

Try the chemical for what, destroying the 'totally harmless' kholm grass?
If the droids had said, hey Noghri, want us to destroy the kholm grass, the Noghri would have responded, God no, keep on cleansing the soil, the kholm grass isn't a problem.

[aaron_bourque]

The noghri weren't giving the droids commands.

And every test available (mentioned in the book) says that the soil isn't dangerous.

[valtyr]

I know they weren't, which is why I said if.

The Noghri spent forty-four years without so much as manually clearing a patch of grass and planting a flower to check the soil quality. They really believed the grass was harmless and the soil fouled. I would expect it to take more than 'droids contain corrosive liquid shock' to persuade them the kholm-grass is deadly.

Look, I'm a huge fan of Zahn's work, but unless there's a piece of information I missed, like in the Thirdson example above, this scene does not convince me at all.

[aaron_bourque]

No, they'd tried that, but the altered kholmgrass killed anything out of the clean land.

[valtyr]

Eh what? The kholm grass was killing stuff when it wasn't even present?

[aaron_bourque]

No . . . the altered kholmgrass was widespread across the planet. It was everywhere.

Or do you mean before the Empire showed up? Back then, a)they were too worried about day-to-day survival to try to plant real crops and b) the poison(s) from the Old Republic ship hadn't been processed fully by the planet ecology. At first it was the ship toxins doing the killing. Then the Empire made it worse.

[valtyr]

The point is, they were thoroughly convinced that the soil was dirty and the kholm grass was safe, so I see no reason they should care at all if some stuff in a droid burns up grass.

[karthzon]

I'm writing from the future to clarify this. There's a lot more going on here than what was shown in the comic. First of all, the Noghri knew how a decon droid was supposed to act, so when they saw one running away, it put them in a suspicious frame of mind (in the book, an Imperial reconnaissance droid's logic circuits had been fitted into it to keep an eye on Honoghr). Then Leia showed them that the chemical the decon droids were using wasn't decontaminating the ground, but simply killing the fake kholm-grass, and they could have done it a lot faster. And since the Noghri knew that the areas the droids had already passed through were fertile, they believed her.

There was also another thread that was completely cut from the comic that showed Leia believing the contamination of Honoghr to be the Rebellion's fault because their early ships (the ones they would have been using in the timeframe she originally believed the battle above Honoghr to occur in) contained unstable and toxic chemicals that could have had an effect like the maitrakh described if they fell on a planet. But when she realised that the battle occured much earlier, she also realised that it would have been during the Clone Wars, which not only absolves the Rebellion of responsibility for the disaster, but debunks the idea that chemicals from the fallen ship could have caused it.

[valtyr]

Yes, I know there's more in the books, because I read the books. As I explained upthread. I also explained upthread that I don't think the scene was convincing, as the Noghri did not believe the kholm-grass harmful and would therefore not consider it particularly notable that there are corrosive liquids in a droid that can destroy organic matter.