u r not marriage material

[journalwk]

got in a fight w/ my ex-girlf, and den got in a fight w/

http://www.livejournal.com/users/lostcosmonaut/103746.html?thread=3677506#t3677506

my BIFF, in th span of half an hour, this a.m. This sounds like a joke, but it led to a

Comments

[betchka]

We fight a lot. I think you have a hard time putting yourself in other people's shoes, especially womens.

LJ CUT THIS ENTRY!!!

[betchka]

And why do you always seek outside opinions during arguements? I'm not saying that as an attack, I'm just saying that if you tell someone you have to consult other people to validate your right or wrong-ness, well...you're probably only gonna make them feel less validated and more pissed off...I'm not saying that as an attack, just an observation.

no

[journalwk]

i'm interested in other people's opinions. I don't always seek them out B4 making a decision.

Re: no

[betchka]

Life ain't always The People's Court. Bascially, it's like this: you're looking for other people to back you up on being right instead of actually listening to why the other person is upset. Sometimes "sorry I upset you/hurt your feelings/etc..." is the only thing needed in any given situation

Re: no

[claudelemonde]

i think more men are typically interested in rhetorical victory than in reaching a consensus or mutual understanding (not agreement; understanding) and i almost always establish off the bat "ok are we arguing to win or arguing to learn." it's a huge difference

Re: no

[betchka]

I agree. When it comes to feelings you're hardly ever gonna reach a consensus. The most you can do is acknowledge you understand where the other person is coming from. You don't have to say "I was wrong" or agree with them.

Being "right" all the time is overrated.

Re: no

[claudelemonde]

i am pretty much continually correcting my stances based on information that comes in and i hve really had a hard time "arguing" with some people because they are staunch and unchanging and then LATER come back all like "well i considered what you said and now i think such-and-such" and i'm like "too late, you already broke my heart n i don't like you anymore." because i am totalitarian like that. now i try to directly ask about Fighting Style when i meet people.

speedy reaction time

[journalwk]

i like to make adjustments, mid-argument.

Re: speedy reaction time

[claudelemonde]

ok so that is one good trait. another thing to note is that women are socialized to present differing ideas in more "polite" or "conciliatory" fashions, like even the habit of saying "well i think that" or "in my opinion" before making a PERSONAL TRUTH DECLARATION, and since men don't do that so much it can be a barrier. one of the hardest situations i have is my best friend, who is male AND from NY and also grew up pretty privileged, & who tends to completely run me over in conversation (b/c i was socialized in the midwest/female/poorer etc) & the few times i have actually debated him seriously and dangerously was tremendously uncomfortable & sad for both of us, b/c we were used to a context where i was soft. there is a lot to be said about tone. there is a lot to be said also about the coldness of text, when there are not visual phsyical cues that indicate receptiveness, respect, attention, etc.

I TYPE FAST YET AGAIN

drunken kung fu

[journalwk]

my guess is my fighting style and yrs are compatible (in th good way). You are fast and cover a lot of ground. I am slow and methodical, and sometimes repetitive: it lets me absorb th other person's argument quickly, and attempt to summarize it.

Sometimes I am good @ summarizing th other person's argument (and repeating it back to her), and sometimes not so good.

@ my worst, I absorb th other person's argument and den proceed to COMPLETELY IGNORE IT--th tried and true STRAW MAN STYLE.

I think people consciously use Straw Man Style only when they truly despise th other person.

the tortoise & the hare

[claudelemonde]

yep. straw man is ultimately disrespectful. i can barely even use that tactic on my most hated enemies (& i mean seriously and not the fun play enemies we are). it literally turns my stomach.

pure poison

[journalwk]

i use it mistakenly, by accident, and th people it infuriates th most are th ones who are mostly HONESTLY attempting 2 communicate w/ me.

but not th former

[journalwk]

i often ask th latter.

being right is ok but having some integrity is what i m really after

[journalwk]

i try not to question other people's feelings; after all, their feelings are theirs, and I am not feeling them. Th times that you and I fought, I never called into doubt that you were feeling this or that. I only called into doubt yr expectations of me and what I should do, or should have done.

Re: being right is ok but having some integrity is what i m really after

[betchka]

You never said "I'm sorry if I hurt you" or acknowledged that I was upset, you mostly just told me that I was wrong.