RL3: The Grindhole.
O RL3? This is the third (or first) roguelike idea I had in the spring. If you want a refresher:
http://joshksingh.livejournal.com/124619.html
Anyway, I do still think about it from time to time. I have wanted to craft an overworld map, similar to the one I made for Soulthieves. I just had a brain blast, though. It's an idea for an optional dungeon, which some may see as almost pointless. It'd be called the Grindhole.
Roguelikes, like RPGs generally, often encourage bored players to "grind", which is essentially facing lots and lots of monsters to earn experience points, improve stats, collect items, or all three (and maybe more). Sometimes it's the desire of the player to completely crank up their character to survive later portions easier; other times, it's poor game design where the difficulty scales quicker than the character progression can handle. It's my hope that SouthLab and (especially) Soulthieves won't foster that sort of thing as much. I hope RL3 will be similar, but the Grindhole is basically a spoof dungeon, giving players not only a place to grind, but a goal altogether pointless except for personal satisfaction (of some sad fashion).
It'd work like this: whenever you enter the Grindhole, you start at dungeon level 1. You proceed down through the randomly generated levels as you would in any other dungeon; you fight monsters and collect loot (possibly including valuable items) just the same. But if you ever take the upstairs on any level, you immediately exit the dungeon. If you reenter the dungeon to start again from level 1, the levels are generated all over again, ensuring the content of each is fresh for each dive. That's dissimilar from other dungeons, where the levels are generated once during the game and remain the same until game over.
There'll be an NPC at a town nearby who's an expert on the Grindhole, and they'll keep track of your current record for deepest level. This record will even hold across games, so you can challenge yourself to dive deeper. Why? Why, indeed?
The Grindhole should be at least useful for real grinding, even from the beginning of the game, so the difficulty of each level will probably be staggered by a different scheme than the other dungeons, something like 1 difficulty level increment for every 2 or 3 dungeon levels. This would also enforce another characteristic of grinding: on multiple dives, having to go through the weaker dungeon levels over again should be appropriately annoying. However, some of the annoying bite should be taken off by the fact that the levels are generated fresh on each dive, so at least there will be new and different loot to be had, and possibly some fun new encounters.
It's quite a similar concept to the Infinite Dungeon from ADOM, but in that case you have to ascend through the traversed levels to exit, whereas in the Grindhole you leave immediately when you go up any flight of stairs. Also, the Infinite Dungeon does have some other purposes, obscure though they might be. The Grindhole, in contrast, has no significance at all to the plot progression.
However, having a dungeon like that might enable me to flex the difficulty of other dungeons a little. It also could provide an area for initially weaker characters to gain some experience in relative safety.
You might think this is a stupid idea. But you don't know roguelike players. Some of the geeks will make a contest out of seeing who can dive the deepest into the Grindhole; they'll discuss the mechanics of Grindhole diving at length in forums and gloat about their own low points (pun intended, I assure you). They'll get a kick out of it. And for those who aren't interested, it remains fully optional (like the Infinite Dungeon is in a normal game of ADOM). But it could make some games easier to handle. Frankly it also provides a good resource for new players to learn the ropes of the game, and for spaders to investigate the mechanics of the game (as they determine to be a worthwhile pursuit).
There is a sadistic slant to this, for sure. And that's okay.
http://joshksingh.livejournal.com/124619.html
Anyway, I do still think about it from time to time. I have wanted to craft an overworld map, similar to the one I made for Soulthieves. I just had a brain blast, though. It's an idea for an optional dungeon, which some may see as almost pointless. It'd be called the Grindhole.
Roguelikes, like RPGs generally, often encourage bored players to "grind", which is essentially facing lots and lots of monsters to earn experience points, improve stats, collect items, or all three (and maybe more). Sometimes it's the desire of the player to completely crank up their character to survive later portions easier; other times, it's poor game design where the difficulty scales quicker than the character progression can handle. It's my hope that SouthLab and (especially) Soulthieves won't foster that sort of thing as much. I hope RL3 will be similar, but the Grindhole is basically a spoof dungeon, giving players not only a place to grind, but a goal altogether pointless except for personal satisfaction (of some sad fashion).
It'd work like this: whenever you enter the Grindhole, you start at dungeon level 1. You proceed down through the randomly generated levels as you would in any other dungeon; you fight monsters and collect loot (possibly including valuable items) just the same. But if you ever take the upstairs on any level, you immediately exit the dungeon. If you reenter the dungeon to start again from level 1, the levels are generated all over again, ensuring the content of each is fresh for each dive. That's dissimilar from other dungeons, where the levels are generated once during the game and remain the same until game over.
There'll be an NPC at a town nearby who's an expert on the Grindhole, and they'll keep track of your current record for deepest level. This record will even hold across games, so you can challenge yourself to dive deeper. Why? Why, indeed?
The Grindhole should be at least useful for real grinding, even from the beginning of the game, so the difficulty of each level will probably be staggered by a different scheme than the other dungeons, something like 1 difficulty level increment for every 2 or 3 dungeon levels. This would also enforce another characteristic of grinding: on multiple dives, having to go through the weaker dungeon levels over again should be appropriately annoying. However, some of the annoying bite should be taken off by the fact that the levels are generated fresh on each dive, so at least there will be new and different loot to be had, and possibly some fun new encounters.
It's quite a similar concept to the Infinite Dungeon from ADOM, but in that case you have to ascend through the traversed levels to exit, whereas in the Grindhole you leave immediately when you go up any flight of stairs. Also, the Infinite Dungeon does have some other purposes, obscure though they might be. The Grindhole, in contrast, has no significance at all to the plot progression.
However, having a dungeon like that might enable me to flex the difficulty of other dungeons a little. It also could provide an area for initially weaker characters to gain some experience in relative safety.
You might think this is a stupid idea. But you don't know roguelike players. Some of the geeks will make a contest out of seeing who can dive the deepest into the Grindhole; they'll discuss the mechanics of Grindhole diving at length in forums and gloat about their own low points (pun intended, I assure you). They'll get a kick out of it. And for those who aren't interested, it remains fully optional (like the Infinite Dungeon is in a normal game of ADOM). But it could make some games easier to handle. Frankly it also provides a good resource for new players to learn the ropes of the game, and for spaders to investigate the mechanics of the game (as they determine to be a worthwhile pursuit).
There is a sadistic slant to this, for sure. And that's okay.