Australian "Feminists" Protest Long Sentences Handed Out to Rapists!

[jordan179]

Courtesy of RealityHammer:

http://www.faithfreedom.org/oped/AmberPawlik31229.htm

In Sydney Australia, two men, Pakistan-born Muslims, were found guilty of gang rapes of two teenage girls. This comes as strict justice for a growing problem in this region. Muslim

Comments

[firstashore]

I'm disappointed you'd even post such a worthless "article" (which is actually nothing but an op-ed) without checking your facts. You normally post such well-supported and well-thought-out arguments, but this is just bullshit - full of logical fallacies and sweeping generalisations. Ask any person in Australia who considers themselves a feminist

[jordan179]

We, in Australia, in this case had a similar small group who called these rape convictions racist - they were NOT saying that the rapists didn't deserve jail time. They were pointing out that rapes perpetrated by whites on white women do not attract either this level of attention or this level of punishment.

The rapes perpetrated by whites on white women, in Australia, are rarely this systematic, nor are they popularly supported by the white community (as Skaf's was by at least one immigrant cleric, and by his father).

Incidentally they are almost certainly right in that respect - Bilal Skaf (and your 'journalist' couldn't even get his name right) would almost certainly not have gotten a 55-year sentence if he'd been white. That's triple the average sentence in Australia for first-degree murder. Think about that. The average sentence for a rape, depending on the level of violence in involved, is probably 4 to 14 years.

How many rapists form a gang to commit serial rape, commit their rapes with extreme violence, and then in court

[firstashore]

The rapes perpetrated by whites on white women, in Australia, are rarely this systematic, nor are they popularly supported by the white community (as Skaf's was by at least one immigrant cleric, and by his father).

Systematic? There were about three gang-rapes that I recall and they were all about five years ago. How many white rapes have there been in that time in Australia? I shudder to think. Thousands, probably. It is the biased media focus on the Muslim cases that makes it appear "systematic."

The gang rapes weren't supported by the bulk of the Muslim community here either. The vast bulk, in fact. The Australian Mufti was forced to resign over his comments, and, well, Skaf's father raised the misogynistic piece of shit that is Bilal Skaf - I think that explains how fallacious it is to cite Bilal Skaf's father as evidence that the wider Muslim community supported the rapes.

How many rapists form a gang to commit serial rape, commit their rapes with extreme violence, and then in court claim that the victims deserved it because

[cutelildrow]

The problem with the Skaf case in particular was that it received such huge amounts of media attention. That's where the controversy came in. It wasn't the sentencing so much - that followed from the public attention. That's why the anti-discrimination board released those leaflets refered to in your article. It was a guide to the media outlets basically saying "if these rapists had been white, would you have made such a media circus out of it?" Its purpose was to ensure that race was not an issue when reporting on such things, which seems fair enough to me.

However, when the rapists use race as a REASON why they were raping women, then it does become an issue. Which is what the Skar brothers did, along with their fellow rapists.

[firstashore]

Does it

[cutelildrow]

They would get a longer sentence, because these are actually two crimes, not just one - racially motivated crimes fall under 'hate crimes' and therefore be a separate charge (and therefore additional sentencing.)

The fact is, the rapists themselves brought up race as a motive for their crimes (thereby making the rapes not just a series of rapes, but also a crime of racial hatred). The two are separate crimes that are also at the same time intertwined due to being perpetuated by the same group - again, stacking the violence of the crime itself.

They set out to rape, and set out to perform a crime based on racial reasons (that is, to rape only non-Muslim women, regardless of ethnic background.)

Which is the whole definition of a hate crime - they are not attacking individuals, but attacking groups of people - which in turn is very likely to bring about retaliatory crime, thereby bringing about community unrest. The damage is not restricted to just the victims and the relatives of the victims involved, but beyond them as well

[firstashore]

Hate crimes aren't tried in addition to a "normal" crime in Australia. It's not the same as the US. I'm not even sure we have a distinct legal definition of "hate crime."

Which is the whole definition of a hate crime - they are not attacking individuals, but attacking groups of people - which in turn is very likely to bring about retaliatory crime, thereby bringing about community unrest. The damage is not restricted to just the victims and the relatives of the victims involved, but beyond them as well.That's all well and good, but I don't see how if these people had been white, they would have been any less culpable. Or if they had been Muslims but not been racially motivated

[cutelildrow]

Actually, to me, a hate crime is a different sentence altogether. If that brings up their total jail time to something huge, well...

If there is no law regarding hate crimes there, then the whole hate crime argument is moot anyway. I agree that they're evil, and should be punished, preferably more severely.

edit:ps: I also love the edit comment function.

[jordan179]

Normally I disapprove of the concept of "hate crimes," but for these perps, if the judge wanted to tack on extra punishment for mopery, I'd be cheering him on :)

[cutelildrow]

Isn't that "it's the fault of the women we raped" view echoed by that same jackass who said that women who aren't covered (in the proper Muslim attire) like meat left out and the cat ate? I would think that the reason why this received so much publicity is because of that...

And, just 4-14 years? There's no lifetime sentence? Also, it may be that the penalty stacked due to the number of rapes perpetuated by the rapists.

[cutelildrow]

huh, nice timing Jordan, and better writ than myself.

[jordan179]

Thank you. Yes, I think it's not the religion of the rapist, but rather his public attempt to justify his behavior, and (even more sinisterly) his community's attempt to justify his behavior. Even though rapists and their families and friends may often believe the victims were "asking for it," few are evil or stupid enough to say so in public.

[cutelildrow]

Heh, indeed. It's almost as if they're actually ASKING to be further punished by trying to justify the savagry here.

Anyway, I am likely to go away from my PC for a while and will stop exploding comments all over this post. <.<;;; Sorry about that.

[firstashore]

Yes... His name is something like Sheikh Taj din al-Hilaly. I forget it exactly.

He was actually chief Mufti of Australia - that's why his comments created such a furore. Australia's top-ranking Muslim cleric was basically agreeing with it.

I think the Muslim community, under pressure, eventually made him stand down.

I don't know if life is possible for rape in Australia but it's certainly not common. If it's a "date rape" or statutory rape it might even be less than 4 years depending on the circumstances. But more than 14 years for a single rape is almost unheard of, especially if there is no prior history of sexual assault.

I don't -think- (but I'm not 100% certain) that these guys actually raped more than one woman. There was a series of rapes by different groups. So I don't think it was stacked sentences. But I don't actually know the breakdown or the justification of the sentences - just that 55 years for one rape is EXTREMELY severe by the Australian justice standards.

[cutelildrow]

see my comment to you below - they did rape more than one woman. The Skar brothers not only raped many women, they did multiple rapes on the women as well. So their high penalty is very justified, given the extreme violence of their crimes.

Actually, reading further, he got his prison sentence reduced, then when further evidence convicting him of his involvement with a rape was discovered, he got another ten years. Furthermore, he was charged with a hoax terrorist act. He's an unrepentant ass and frankly, needs to be shot.

Most of the rapists were given reduced sentences after appeal, and only 9 out of the 14 suspects were convicted. reduced sentences. And one of them has already been released back out to the general populace (Tayyab Sheikh).

[firstashore]

Actually, reading further, he got his prison sentence reduced, then when further evidence convicting him of his involvement with a rape was discovered, he got another ten years. Furthermore, he was charged with a hoax terrorist act. He's an unrepentant ass and frankly, needs to be shot.

Your arguments are subjective and based on emotion and frankly you lose credibility with statements like "unrepentant ass and frankly, needs to be shot." This is not about whether 55 years is a justified sentence for his crime or not. That's open to opinion and can't really be stated objectively. What CAN be stated objectively is whether it's a similar sentence in comparison to similar crimes. And in the other case alone (the K brothers) it was double the longest sentence handed out there. So never mind comparison to white rapes, there may be some evidence that his penalty was severe even by the standards of the other Muslim gang-rape.

Most of the rapists were given reduced sentences after appeal, and only 9 out of the 14 suspects were convicted.