"Buddies" (1st draft, 1st chapter)

[jordan179]

I began writing this military science fiction story, and I thought it might benefit from some informed commentary. For starters, I am not the world's greatest expert on military ettiquite -- in particular, while I know that one addresses a commissioned officer as either "sir" (if of lower rank) or by rank title plus name (if of higher rank), I am

Comments

[jordan179]

Hmm, I actually thought of John MacLean as being closer to the classic "self-educated" rather than the classic "hillbilly" stereotype. I have never lived in the Appalachians but I have lived in the New Jersey Pine Barrens, and country folk really do like guns and vehicles. (Also hard drinking, but that's not Johnny's particular vice). I think it's obvious even in the first chapter that he's smart, though not too arrogant about it. He's not sophisticated, but he's highly intelligent, not retarded.

The main scientist isn't "mad," just callous. I have read books by animal behavior scientists (which is of course one of his two fields) who go on and on about how great apes are clearly "just animals" even when reporting highly sophisticated, complex, and clearly-intentional behavior. Some of the things experimenters really do to them are quite hideous -- and these aren't even usually for military purposes.

Pam as an alien -- yes, in way, you're right about that. I don't know that she's a cliche alien, though -- there are only a few

[baikonur]

John Maclean?

[jordan179]

Damn, now I have to change his name! The funny thing is I wasn't thinking Bruce Willis, I was thinking "Scots-Irish." I still want John, I'm just going to change the last name to something else Scots-Irish.

[firstashore]

You've got the dynamic for corporal right too I think. I've served with both the USMC and the US Army and in formal situations even corporals are treated with the strictest formality, but when there is no rank around it's first-name basis.

But there's no reason you have to refer to specialists if you want to use corporals, for a science fiction story.

I -think- the ranks should be capitalised when they are addressed as a title as in " you only need to call me ‘corporal’ when we’re being formal" - should have a capital C.

[zaimoni]

While I am pretty much worthless on military culture, I should note that rank titles are one of those things that flop around based on era. Am I correct in thinking you're targeting near-now?

(Aside: my genre of composition is moderately-hard science fantasy.)

[jordan179]

While I am pretty much worthless on military culture, I should note that rank titles are one of those things that flop around based on era. Am I correct in thinking you're targeting near-now?The story is set around 2042-43, on the League of Humanity timeline (I have several future histories that diverge around key events), during the Third Terrorist War (2041-44) which was fought primarily in Indonesia and the Philippines while the Sino-Russian War (2040-44) was also raging. In this timeline, the Powers Coup attempt of 2040 is defeated, and President Garcia lives to win a third (non-consecutive) term, legal under the Constitutional changes of the early 21st century. This is also the one in which sapient animals are eventually (but obviously not yet) accepted to full human rights

[zaimoni]

I see. The main divergences I have in "main" by then would be

• Near Now: The Thesis (result of an Iskandran covert operation on Terra spanning roughly a century, which rates its own novel-in-composition Stopping the Inevitable)
• The Six Minutes War (indirectly caused by psychiatric advances due to the Thesis, which enabled the invention of the observer network).
• Red China invasion of Taiwan, which escalates to a limited nuclear war involving the U.S. This was stopped prematurely when a near-earth asteroid was deflected, obliterating Red China's CCC.
• Formation of Scientia, intent to indefinitely prevent the Second American Civil War.
• The annihilation of locally government-issued money in the Slav EconZone.

[jordan179]

The League universe also eventually reaches and passes through its Singularity, sometime around 2100. It is greatly helped in this by the successful cultural struggle for civil rights for sapient animals, because it becomes used to the concept of sapience not depending on physical form. Among its earliest artificial intelligence is the augmentation of great apes from creatures which are sapient but lack the communication skills to fully use their sapience, to creatures which are fully sapient (though marginally less intelligent than humans on average).

[baikonur]

I liked it. I have a few thoughts/suggestions which you can feel free to ignore if you want

[jordan179]

1) What is the connection between the military and the judiciary? As a lawyer, the idea that as punishment for a crime you would be essentially conscripted into the military is pretty farfetched, not to mention frightening.

This is historically a rather common deal, especially in rural areas. The criminal is not actually conscripted in punishment, he is offered the choice (by the judge) of agreeing to volunteer, or doing the time for the crime. This is only done when the Army is short of recruits, and it is semi-informal (like all bargains of this sort).

The fact that the judge offered Johnny this deal implies that (1) the Army needed men, as Johnny himself points out, and (2) the judge disapproved of the tactics of the ATF and wanted to give Johnny an out. He also issues the order to drop any asset forfeiture.

In a case severe enough to warrant asset forfeiture, it seems unrealistic to think that the judge would let him off the hook with a suggestion that he enlist a few months down the road.You would be scared if you looked

[baikonur]

I didn't realize you were writing within an established universe, so forgive me if I'm ignorant of the established rules.

This is historically a rather common deal, especially in rural areas. The criminal is not actually conscripted in punishment, he is offered the choice (by the judge) of agreeing to volunteer, or doing the time for the crime. This is only done when the Army is short of recruits, and it is semi-informal (like all bargains of this sort).Historically, perhaps so. But you aren't dealing with history, you are dealing with the future. Legal development is cumulative, so it is not believable that in the near future of the United States, criminal punishment would have regressed, and little else would have changed... Due Process is the bedrock of criminal procedure, and an abandonment of due process is farfetched in a future where states are still states and the United States is still the United States

[jordan179]

This is historically a rather common deal, especially in rural areas. The criminal is not actually conscripted in punishment, he is offered the choice (by the judge) of agreeing to volunteer, or doing the time for the crime. This is only done when the Army is short of recruits, and it is semi-informal (like all bargains of this sort).

Historically, perhaps so. But you aren't dealing with history, you are dealing with the future. Legal development is cumulative, so it is not believable that in the near future of the United States, criminal punishment would have regressed, and little else would have changed... Due Process is the bedrock of criminal procedure, and an abandonment of due process is farfetched in a future where states are still states and the United States is still the United States.

I do not know for sure that judges ever stopped "recommending" troublesome youths for Army service. I know that they did this at least as late as the Vietnam War

[electorprince]

Specialists are referred to as "Specialist" or "Specialist *last name*" by those of lower rank. God help the PFC that ever referred to me by my first name when I was a Specialist, be it formal or not. Wearing SGT has only made me worse; I gladly devote hours out of a day correctively training E-4s why I'm NOT referred to by just my last name, on or off duty

[jordan179]

Thanks for the information, especially on the terms of address. I intend John to be slightly informal, but I don't want him to be unrealistically so. And thanks for letting me know that the rank of Corporal is still used.

I am making a few materials technology assumptions, but maybe I should downgrade my fictional weapon to a 14.5mm or 20mm anyway. I do want a bigger than .50-cal (which would be 12.5mm) because of other assumptions I'm making about progress in armor (especially light vehicle armor) technology.

[firstashore]

Interesting - when I was having a beer one night with a group of US Army personnel from the 25th ID back in 2001 they all called each other by their first names or nicknames - with the possibly exception of the sergeant, I don't remember how they addressed him, but the specialists and PFCs did.

[kalance]

Lower enlisted (PVT, PV2, PFC, SPC) that work together for long periods will be less formal like that, usually when they're off duty, rarely (out of earshot of officers/NCO's) on duty. It's one of the few times that military bearing slips, and like you said, it does not go up into NCO ranks. Even at the clubs, the squad leader is still "Sergeant". Officers and NCOs hanging out off duty might use first names amongst themselves during off hours, but never on duty.

A lot of it depends also on how strict the unit in general is about that sort of thing. Some are lenient, others don't give much leeway at all. I've known my share of "electric pine cones", and I've seen them to be a looser bunch than some.