Morons Riot in Ferguson to Defend Rights of Stupid Big People to Rob, Beat Up Small People

Nov 24, 2014 23:26

After Michael Brown, a really stupid big guy, strong-armed a box of cigars from a store, he was stopped by Officer Darren Wilson, who caught him with the cigars.  Because Michael Brown was a really big guy, and really stupid, he thought he could beat up Officer Wilson, and began doing so.  Officer Wilson then proceeded to demonstrate to him that ( Read more... )

crime, riots

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Re: Why so many? jordan179 November 25 2014, 09:17:53 UTC
At a guess, it's because we're a more diverse society and our police are willing to aggressively enforce the law all over our cities, rather than accept de facto "no go" zones. You're going to pay for this in the future, when you finally get sick of letting foreigners carve off pieces of your country, and the emboldened Muslim minorities resist having the law enforced on them like everyone else.

As to making Michael Brown out to be a "moron" -- well, at the least he had poor impulse control and had become accustomed to muscling his way to get what he wanted by intimidation. He was a bully, and a dangerous one because of his sheer size and propensity for violence.

How else do you explain a situation where he just grabbed a box of cigars and walked out of a store, then when stopped by the police tried to reach into the car to beat up the officer? The first is attested by security footage from the store, and the second by the injuries to the officer. There's the popular claim that he was a "gentle giant" who was pleading for his life and trying to run away, but he had previous complaints of violence against him, and all the bullet wounds were inflicted to the front of his body.

Someone like Brown inflicted a lot of misery and humiliation on others because he felt that "might made right." That moment when six bullets tore through his body and ended the menace he posed to others should be seen as a shining and happy one, one which among other things aborted all his future crimes. The only tragedy here is the damage being inflicted on Officer Wilson's career, and on the persons and property of any innocents caught in this rioting.

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Re: Why so many? marmoe November 25 2014, 10:37:34 UTC
I find it funny how the official story changed over time. Several days after the shooting the Ferguson Chief declared that Wilson was unaware of the robbery at the time of the altercation. Now the official storyline is that Wilson stopped Brown for matching the description of a suspect. It was widely reported that Wilson had an orbital fracture, now it is clear that he had a slight bruise.

According to Wilson's testimony he approached the two because they were walking in the middle of the road. Only after Johnson told him they were almost where they wanted to go and Brown threw expletives at him did he see the cigarillos and suspected them to be the suspect robbers. He calls for reinforcement but does not wait and forces a two-on-one encounter. He also drives up so close that Brown can lock him inside his car. Is any of this standard procedure? Or even good tactics? How about trailing until the called reinforcements arrive (after all they did arrive within seconds after the shooting), instead of taking on Johnson and Brown on on your own?

Was Brown a bully? Possibly. At least we now know this carries a death sentence.

As for the violence errupting, a lot of the looting in the initial riosts was done by people from out-of-town and last night a white male with an American bandana lighted up police cars. Could be someone outraged at the GJ verdict, could be a KKK agent provocateur, too.

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Re: Why so many? jordan179 November 25 2014, 11:13:04 UTC
It was widely reported that Wilson had an orbital fracture, now it is clear that he had a slight bruise.

Um, CNN claimed he had only a slight bruise. However, how did he acquire this "slight bruise?" If Brown hit him, he committed assault and battery against a police officer in the performance of his duties, which was also resisting arrest.

According to Wilson's testimony he approached the two because they were walking in the middle of the road. Only after Johnson told him they were almost where they wanted to go and Brown threw expletives at him did he see the cigarillos and suspected them to be the suspect robbers.

Yes, so? "Walking in the middle of the road" was suspicious (and really idiotic) behavior. So was Brown's cursing at the police officer. That drew Wilson's attention, and at that point (accurately) suspected them to be the robbers.

He calls for reinforcement but does not wait and forces a two-on-one encounter. He also drives up so close that Brown can lock him inside his car. Is any of this standard procedure? Or even good tactics?

I do not know. I can make some good arguments for Wilson's behavior -- he was keeping contact with suspects who were behaving in an irrational and potentially-violent manner, and hence protecting the populace from them.

How about trailing until the called reinforcements arrive (after all they did arrive within seconds after the shooting), instead of taking on Johnson and Brown on on your own?

I will note here that taking them on worked -- Brown will no longer be a threat to anyone. The failure in law enforcement was on the part of higher government levels -- the riots should have been broken up and the ringleaders popped into jail when they first started, instead of being permitted to recur day after day after day. And Attorney General Eric Holder should have rounded up the New Black Panther Party when they started putting bounties on the heads of persons not convicted of any crimes.

Was Brown a bully? Possibly. At least we now know this carries a death sentence.

Are you seriously going to argue that a policeman in your country wouldn't shoot a much larger and more muscular man who was resisting arrest by physically assaulting the police officer? Or that, in your country, shooting someone in self-defense somehow requires that a death sentence be passed on that person first? You are twisting logic into pretzels in order to reach what you consider a "progressive" conclusion.

We know for sure that Brown had commited the crime because it was caught on the security camera. This is part of why I call him a "moron" -- he committed a confrontational robbery right in front of a security camera, and he did it for utterly trivial loot.

... could be a KKK agent provocateur, too.

A what? The power of the KKK was rather decisively broken in the 1960's and early 1970's -- they haven't had much in the way of any organization. In fact, white-supremacist terrorist organizations in general have little or no power in America -- your concept of how American politics works seems about 40-50 years out of date.

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Re: Why so many? maxgoof November 25 2014, 13:18:38 UTC
More to the point, we're not arguing if the police story is right or wrong.

We are arguing whether the rioting is right or wrong. It clearly is wrong.

If we are going to compare the truth against what was said, let's continue with what the rioters are claiming:

According to them, Brown was standing with his hands in the air, saying "Don't shoot!" when he was shot in the back. This narrative was told by, surprise surprise, the person who was in the convenience story with Brown when he stole the cigars, and has been repeated almost constantly. Some shop keepers put it on signs in front of their shop in the hope it would act like lamb's blood on the lintel.

That narrative was destroyed with ALL of the autopsies performed. Each one made it clear that the story told by police was closer to the truth than the story told by the accomplice to Brown's petty larceny.

And yet, the rioters cling to that story, and demand "justice".

They keep using that word. I don't think it means what they think it means.

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RE: Re: Why so many? eta_ta November 25 2014, 14:13:41 UTC
It would be justice if all violent looters were shot on the spot. That would be a primitive, jungle-plain justice even the brainless loudmouths should be able to understand.

Unfortunately, it will be perverted by the likes of CNN and Obama Administration, who by appeasing primitive lawless urges of mobs are sawing the branch they are sitting on

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Re: Why so many? jordan179 November 25 2014, 15:36:26 UTC
The Obama Administration has a lot of blame here, because they should have been acting to round up any agitators who came to Missouri across state lines to riot. They should also be rounding up the New Black Panther Party, which has now twice offered cash bounties for persons not convicted of any crimes. Eric Holder and Barack Obama, both racists, will not do this because of the race of the members of the New Black Panther Party.

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Re: Why so many? stokesgirl November 25 2014, 18:53:00 UTC
It is not Obama's responsibility to police our streets. It is up to the state and local governments to do that.

Typical, everything is Obama's fault.

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Re: Why so many? ford_prefect42 November 25 2014, 19:59:09 UTC
No, but it rather is Obama's responsibility not to inflame tensions or aggravate already problematic situations. Say, by telling rioters that they have a right to loot and pillage, or demanding that injustices be inflicted based on race.

The Obama Administration does bear some responsibility for this, because they have done a horrible horrible job of being the leaders of all the people of America, and have deliberately and consciously aggravated racial tensions in the US.

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Re: Why so many? jordan179 November 25 2014, 21:14:48 UTC
No, but interstate law enforcement is the job of Obama and Holder.

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RE: Re: Why so many? eta_ta November 25 2014, 19:07:28 UTC
But naturally, Obama and Holder ARE Black Panther Party - "in mufti", as old British spies would say.

Listen to his speech.

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Re: Why so many? eta_ta December 21 2014, 01:33:57 UTC
Jordan, I remembered this comment I made when I just listened to the press-conference and looked at mayor diBlasio. The man has no shame. This execution of two cops - it's all his doing! His and Sharpton and other provocateurs. They have incited the crowds, they have signaled vacuum of law and order, they encouraged this outrage.

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Re: Why so many? jordan179 November 25 2014, 15:19:25 UTC
Each one made it clear that the story told by police was closer to the truth than the story told by the accomplice to Brown's petty larceny.

Has anyone considered prosecuting Dorian Johnson for incitement to riot? His story is a complete fabrication, and he probably participated in the assault on Officer Wilson. His lies have already resulted in property damage and probably personal injuries to others. He should not go unpunished for this.

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Re: Why so many? luagha November 25 2014, 18:00:38 UTC
Sadly, freedom of speech saves him from any prosecution on that account.

His testimony to the police might be gotten on some kind of perjury charge but that's rare to try to bother with and only used in perjury traps and the like.

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Re: Why so many? marmoe November 25 2014, 14:33:08 UTC
the ringleaders popped into jail
That presupposes that there were ringleaders in the first place.

Are you seriously going to argue that a policeman in your country wouldn't shoot a much larger and more muscular man who was resisting arrest by physically assaulting the police officer?
They shoot over here, as well. For the legs, if possible. As I said before, statistics are different over here; with about 10 people killed per year, the total number of shots fired at persons is somewhere around 50. Policemen are also trained to not get into this 2-on-1 scenario in the first place, but to wait for reinforcement, unless there is an imminent threat to life or body of somebody (including the officers). You know, the good old "when you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck" thing. If Wilson had waited just 2 minutes after being cursed at (90 seconds of the incident plus a few more for his colleagues to arrive) it would have been two on two or better odds. Where was the urgency in the situation to confront Johnson and Brown that very minute? I simply do not see it. That at least is my point of view.

A what? The power of the KKK was rather decisively broken in the 1960's and early 1970's -- they haven't had much in the way of any organization. In fact, white-supremacist terrorist organizations in general have little or no power in America -- your concept of how American politics works seems about 40-50 years out of date.
Well, that's why I am still reading your LJ and why I am commenting: You show me a side of the US that I rarely know, I can chime in from time to time with news for you. No, the KKK is no longer as powerful as it used to be, but some morons still linger, enough for mischief. Black riots must look like a gift to them as a recruiting opportunity. The Klan put out this warning


I would not put it past them to incite riots. FYI:
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ferguson-police-mole-helping-anonymous-identify-kkk-link-darren-wilson-1476508
http://rt.com/usa/207487-kkk-ferguson-police-support/
I do not trust Anonymous nor its rigor, but this is something to keep an eye on; let the chips fall where they may.

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Re: Why so many? jordan179 November 25 2014, 15:29:25 UTC
That presupposes that there were ringleaders in the first place.

Do you honestly believe that a campaign of rioting lasting for months is spontaneous? As in most rioting, there are certain hardcore troublemakers who do most of the damage; these can be identified and arrested. They are in any case committing multiple violent felonies. There is only a limited supply of such individuals, and if they can be kept in jail long enough their absence will allow the riots to peter out.

They shoot over here, as well. For the legs, if possible.

In the land of reality, that's not as easy as you make it sound. Specifically, against assailants who have closed to attack, attempting to take trick shots at the legs is a very dangerous strategy.

The easiest way to stop an assailant is to shoot for center-of-mass -- this means that if one hits one hits the heart-lungs area, and if one misses by recoil rising the barrel, one hits the head. Hits to the center of mass or head stop an assailant quickly. Aiming for the legs can produce very low-damage hits with recoil misses going to the abdomen. Abdominal hits do not reliably stop an attacker quickly.

Policemen are also trained to not get into this 2-on-1 scenario in the first place, but to wait for reinforcement, unless there is an imminent threat to life or body of somebody (including the officers). You know, the good old "when you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck" thing. If Wilson had waited just 2 minutes after being cursed at (90 seconds of the incident plus a few more for his colleagues to arrive) it would have been two on two or better odds.

... and this is how you wind up losing control of a city, by one's officers letting the thugs intimidate them. A mere 1:2 ratio, when the one is armed, is not that bad. Had the higher authorities backed up the Ferguson authorities from the start, treated the rioting as unprovoked criminality and cracked down hard on the rioters, then this would have been over in a few days. This was allowed to build over months, which is why it has become so bad.

Where was the urgency in the situation to confront Johnson and Brown that very minute?

They were getting away. Confronting them prevented them from getting away. That's what one has police for.

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Re: Why so many? marycatelli November 26 2014, 21:26:24 UTC
They shoot over here, as well. For the legs, if possible.

Then they should be prosecuted for reckless endangerment. Shooting for the legs increases their chances of missing -- and so hitting an innocent bystander.

Not to mention that a gunshot wound to the leg can easily kill

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