The Dissident Frogman's Epistle to the Libertarians, and Political Culture

[jordan179]

The Dissident Frogman has broken a long silence to comment on the results of our election, and this article, "The Frogman's Prophecies," should be read in full.  Because of the strong logic and utter beauty of its last few paragraphs, and its relevance to many I know who want to be purist libertarians (or even anarcho-capitalists) I think the

Comments

[x_eleven]

I've said as much myself. Yes, I supported Ron Paul in 2008 and this year. I voted for Sarah Palin and her running mate last time, and for Romney/Ryan this time. I didn't expect much from Romney, and held my nose to cast that vote.

That's what I said: Romney would have some incentive to move our way to one extent or another, whereas the Big O would have none. I told these Fundievangelicals™ so what if Romney is involved with a goofy, "un-Xian cult" -- that's between him and God. What would he do to bring on the Mormon theocracy? Make us all marry more than one wife? Of those people involved in flying airliners into skyscrapers, not a one was a Mormon. Even if worst came to worst, and Romney really did prove to be just like the O-ster, how would we be any worse off? Obama is identical to Obama, and that's a certainty. Romney's being just like Obama was not.

There is a time for ideological and theological purity, and a time to compromise: this year was the time for the latter. It's disgraceful that the turn out this time was significantly lower than in 2008. Romney could have won it if these fools had bothered to show up and vote.

[marycatelli]

For that matter, is Obama involved in a goofy, "un-Xian cult"? Such evidence as we get out of Wright's church was-- not promising.

[jordan179]

Both Black Liberation Theology and Mormonism are to varying degrees Christian heresies. The former holds that blacks, owing to their historic persecution, are inherently holier than whites; the latter -- well it's basically Joseph Smith's Biblical fanfic, as if I were to base a religion on Paradise Lost and (for example) deem cannon diabolical because Satan's Legions first invented them.

I think we should be more concerned with what Obama is doing than the religion of his challengers -- unless said religion is clearly anti-American (as in the case of the Muslim fundamentalists).

[marycatelli]

That's one stripe of black liberation theology. I have read with my own eyes a black liberation theologian declaring that "we" reject any God who is not behind their demands.

Talk about tail wagging the dog.

But -- what stripe is Wright's church?

If we had a press and not a Democrat PR machine, we might know.

[jordan179]

Oh, on the Muslim end of things you have Elijah Muhammed's weird mad-scientist-created-the-whites version of Islam, which owes as much to inverted pulp sf ideas of the 1930's and 1940's as it does to the Koran, and manages to make the Koran look sane by comparison (!!!)

I don't know what version of black liberation theology Jeremiah Wright spouts, save that it's a very hateful and anti-American one. As to what Obama himself believes -- who knows? Marxist atheism? Black Liberation theology? Moderate Islam? Does Obama himself know?

Compared to that, being a Jew by birth and early rearing, atheist by reason and Christian by sentiment (which is basically my background of belief) is pretty damn simple!

[kitten_goddess]

Interestingly, the regular Muslims don't think the Black Muslims are really Muslim.

Jordan, thank you for explaining how political culture changes. It helps me to be more patient. After all, the LGBT rights movement did not really become visible to the American public until the last decade. Civil rights for LGBT people are still controversial, but getting more acceptance by increasing numbers of Americans. It may take many more decades before those changes are accepted by almost all Americans.

[x_eleven]

"I have read with my own eyes a black liberation theologian declaring that "we" reject any God who is not behind their demands".

That would be James Cone.

"But -- what stripe is Wright's church?"

Wright's "theology" comes straight from Cone. You can find out all about it at Trinity United's web site.

As for O, he joined that church for reasons of political expediency. When starting out as a community organizer, it was explained to him that church membership was expected. No real evidence he was anything more than a paper member. It doesn't look like O has any religious convictions.

[jordan179]

He seems to worship himself ...

Libertarian scapegoats

[ext_1493909]

By all the evidence, if everybody who voted for Johnson, Stein, Goode, Rocky Anderson, and whoever was the "Liberation and Socialism" candidate had voted for Romney... it would have made no difference whatever.

Re: Libertarian scapegoats

[jordan179]

I'm not talking only about those libertarians who actually voted for third-party candidates. I'm talking about those libertarians who avoided voting for Romney -- or, worse, voted for Obama -- because Romney pandered to or even belonged to the social-conservative wing of the Republican Party.

What I'm saying is that the threat Obama and his faction pose to our civil liberties is great and imminent, whereas the threat Romney and his faction would have posed is small and far-away, and that this was true even before Obama won the 2012 election. The reason why is that the socialists enjoy the protection of academic and media support, while the theocons don't. It makes a very big difference.

Re: Libertarian scapegoats

[jordan179]

Also, this isn't about "scapegoating" either libertarians or theocons. All the effort that both wings put into blaming each other is effort that is not being applied toward trying to stop the socialist erosion of our civil liberties. Time enough to quarrel over social issues when the socialists ARE OUT OF POWER.

Re: Libertarian scapegoats

[jordan179]

Let me put it this way -- we'll still be blaming each other when the tanks roll up Pennsylvania Avenue. And both the theocons and the libertarians will be right to blame each other.

And it won't matter a bit.