The Death of Shulamith Firestone and the Inevitability of Machine-Based Human Reproduction

[jordan179]

Shulamith Firestone (1945-2012) was found dead on the 28th, an event of which I first learned from reading Nicola Griffiths' blog entry "RIP Shulamith Firestone."  Griffiths' entry is something of a commemoration:  my own opinion of Firestone and her effect on society is a lot lower.

Firestone was one of the founders of "radical feminism," a

Comments

[gothelittle]

If newborn babies have every single need met, food, warmth, safety, cleanliness... but are handled as little as possible... they stop growing and die.

Newborn babies already know the scent of their mother from the amniotic fluid, her voice from listening while in the womb, and they regulate their heartbeats by being laid on their mother's chest. They even cry, from the very beginning, "in the same language" as their mothers. (This is shown by listening to whether the cry rises or falls in pitch (or both).)

I do not believe that, when an artificial womb is finally created, it will work... not unless there is always a human presence, preferably only a single one, as close to the womb as possible. And even then, just as formula-fed babies tend to have slightly lower IQ's, mildly inferior immune systems, etc. I could not picture an artificial womb producing an infant with all the same levels of protection and development as one 'incubated' inside a woman.

Heck, even being born by C-section gives you a very small drop in health, and a slight increase in risk of disease.

[marycatelli]

I'm working on a story where there are such artificial wombs, and they get lugged around all day exactly so as to stimulate the child as if in vivo.

[headnoises]

Do you know if they controlled for voluntary vs medically required post-labor c-sections?
(First child by emergency c-section after many hours, second one was scheduled...and then showed up a week early with REALLY strong labor pains.)

I can see hard-birth dropping it, but then I can also see getting the kid out at minimum of a week before they're ready to leave being an issue.

[gothelittle]

This isn't about a blame game or anything... a friend of mine had hers by C-section due to many hours of unproductive labor. :)

But seeing as they found medical reasons behind it that involve passage through the birth channel, I'd say it's very likely the same for voluntary vs medically required.

But like I said, it's not about a blame game. C-section is better than dead, or whatever impairments might have happened with a long labor!

The point behind my bringing it up was that if everything up to the actual birth canal is set up on purpose to give the kid the best possible start in life, I don't see how any artificial womb will ever do as well.

[headnoises]

*laughs* Sorry if it sounded defensive, more curious since I know that there's been a big jump in c-sections because they're easy, and that doctors like to schedule them a minimum of a week before the baby is due.

I don't much trust folks finding reasons without controlling for the known differences-- too likely to get results that fit their world-view, instead of that fit the facts.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised if the stresses of a normal birth are important-- it is with chicks hatching, you can kill a chick by "helping" it break out.

[gothelittle]

S'ok, I'm careful about childbirth stuff. I felt so horrible and guilty when I couldn't breastfeed my eldest, like I was doing something wrong. Motherhood - The Ultimate Guilt Trip

Anyways, in the interests of curiosity:

http://www.webmd.com/baby/news/20120209/c-sections-not-always-best-small-babies

Babies in the womb who are smaller than they should be have higher rates of breathing problems when delivered early by C-section vs. similar babies who are born vaginally, a new study shows.

http://www.foxnews.com/health/2012/08/09/c-sections-may-not-provide-brain-benefits-vaginal-birth/

Horvath emphasized, much more work is needed before we know whether the findings apply to people. Even if C-sections do affect UCP2 production in human brains, the types of behavior changes seen in people may be different than those seen in mice, Horvath said.

http://healthland.time.com/2012/05/24/are-cesarean-sections-contributing-to-childhood-obesity/

In a study published in the journal Archives of Disease in Childhood, researchers found that babies born by cesarean section were more than twice as likely to be obese by age 3 as those born vaginally.

http://www.usnews.com/science/articles/2010/06/22/babys-first-bacteria-depend-on-birth-route

Previous research suggests that babies born via C-section are more likely to develop allergies, asthma and other immune system-related troubles than are babies born the traditional way. The new study, to be published online the week of June 21 in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, offers a detailed look at the early stages of the body’s colonization by microbes, critters that shape the developing immune system, help extract nutrients from food and keep harmful microbes at bay.

Babies born vaginally were colonized predominantly by Lactobacillus, microbes that aid in milk digestion, the research team from the University of Puerto Rico, the University of Colorado in Boulder and two Venezuelan institutes report. The C-section babies were colonized by a mixture of potentially nasty bacteria typically found on the skin and in hospitals, such as Staphylococcus and Acinetobacter.