Kudos to Terry Jones

[jordan179]

Terry Jones finally did burn a Koran, and I am glad of it. In doing so, he confirmed our freedom of speech, as American citizens. And I am pleased to see that others have been following in his footsteps

Comments

[marmoe]

Hmm, would you cheer people on to copy the Westboro Baptist Church in order to assert the freedom of speech, as well? I think there is a blurry line between free speech and needless provokation of people for the intent of provoking people. And no, the Koran burning does not justify violence, much less lynching and murder, whether of innocent people as happened in Afghanistan or people burning a book.

[blue_sky_day]

The WBC doesn't really need much defending. Virtually is really trying to shut down their speech. Terry Jones, on the other hand, had a lot of pressure put on him, including from the Army and FBI, to not go through with his demonstration.

[blue_sky_day]

Correction: virtually nobody

[jordan179]

Terry Jones, on the other hand, had a lot of pressure put on him, including from the Army and FBI, to not go through with his demonstration.

And note: this is the Army and FBI which should be defending his freedom of speech, by (respectively) intimidating (and if necessary engaging and destroying) the foreigners making the threats, and arresting anyone who comes to America to carry them out.

[jordan179]

If we'd wanted it to be prudent to burn Korans we should have started in Detroit and waged genocide east to Indonesia.

Any Muslims who claim, and are willing to take to violence to protect, the "right" to physically attack those who simply burn their own Korans, should be annihilated. Note that not all Muslims are willing to be violent in defense of this "right," and less would be if we made it plain that the might of America stood behind the destruction of those who are.

[jordan179]

So I repeat: this is the wrong kind of war for this guy to be hailed as a hero for behaving this way. He's made it more likely we will lose.

We must not choose a path to victory that involves acquiescing to the Muslims' fundamental argument that their religion is special and superior to all others. If we do that, we could win the military campaign but lose the grand strategic conflict. Jones, and people like him, are forcing us to eschew that path and instead choose the path that leaves us proudly practicing our own freedom of speech -- no matter how many additional Muslims we have to kill to achieve this superior level of victory.

[jordan179]

Even if you're willing to just keep killing the next crop, and the one after that, it's possible to take net losses until the American populace stops being willing to take them. Indeed, that's the only way to lose a counterinsurgency.

It's also possible to kill enough crops that new crops stop springing up, because the path of insurgency proves fatal both to oneself and to one's relatives. Our job is to not only kill all the insurgents who exist now, but to inflict such despair and humiliation on the fundamendalist Muslims that their path is no longer imitated.

We do not inflict despair and humiliation on the foe by bowing to their rules of conduct, but rather by trampling theirs under before their faces, then demonstrated our ability to smash their feeble attempts at retaliation. That is how the morale of a people is broken, and make no mistake about it: we must break the moral of fundamentalist Islam in order to win a final victory.

[gothelittle]

I think there just might be a small bit of DISTANCE between Terry Jones and the WBC nutcases. I admit I really have a problem when people say that you can't veer a little to one side without cranking the wheel and shooting wildly off the nearest bridge.

Moderation is the key. A glass of wine in the evening doesn't make you a drunkard, a cookie after supper doesn't make you a glutton, a knee-length skirt doesn't make you a slut, and offending a group of extremists in another country by engaging in freedom of speech and religion in the U.S. doesn't make you Fred Phelps.

Also, burning a book doesn't constitute violence, unless you've knocked someone down and tied him just above the flames. Do you believe that the U.S. Military engaged in violence when they burned those Bibles in Afghanistan?

[jordan179]

Hmm, would you cheer people on to copy the Westboro Baptist Church in order to assert the freedom of speech, as well?

No, because they actually disrupt the private ceremonies of other people with direct demonstrations on-site.

I think there is a blurry line between free speech and needless provocation of people for the intent of provoking people.

I employ a "reasonable man" standard when judging "provocation." A reasonable man is not driven to murderous violence by a second man burning that second man's own property half a world away. It's that simple.

And no, the Koran burning does not justify violence, much less lynching and murder, whether of innocent people as happened in Afghanistan or people burning a book.

"People burning a book" are also "innocent" of any act other than self-expression, provided that it is their own book on their own property. If we do not acknowledge this, our freedom of speech becomes meaningless, and then the Muslims will find a new thing to regard as "provocation," and keep doing so until we have

[mosinging1986]

Here are the differences:

1. The Bible does not command Christians to behave the way the WBC behaves. Islamic teaching does command Muslims to behave the way they behave.

2. The WBC is a tiny little church, I think mostly comprised of the Phelps family. They are in no way representative of Christianity in general. The violent behavior of Muslims is sanctioned by the Koran, by the hadith and by Islamic tradition - all over the world.

3. The WBC (as far as I know) has never MURDERED anyone.

Are you honestly claiming that you do not see these distinctions?