The Definition and Universal Applicability of Natural Right

[jordan179]

The historical record of the claim to superiority, either as regards untested materials for bridges or untested orders for society, is not a good one. Almost the only successful revolutions in post-medieval times -- "successful" in that they not merely brought down corrupt or unjust regimes but then built something better in their places which

Comments

[pathia]

This is one of those things, where I understand the logic, theory and practice of what folks believe.

Then I sit back and examine my life, how it would have been potentially over at several points WITHOUT positive rights. (Namely government provided shelter/medicine/opportunities/etc).

[irked_indeed]

From what I understand, private charitable giving decreases with increased taxation- at a rate greater than taxation. So it's possible your needs would have been met by volunteers, rather than tax payments.

Or it's possible they wouldn't- I obviously don't know. But I'd hesitate to conclude that a philosophy of positive rights is necessary to caring for those who need support of one kind or another.

[pathia]

I was turned away from private/religious homeless shelters due to my 'lifestyle', the government run ones let me stay the night and shower.

[carbonelle]

To what extent did your "lifestyle" leave you at the mercy of other people's charity?

Or, to put it another way, everyone has to the right to go to hell in a handbasket on his own dime.

Even so, the available charitable resources has been shrinking dramatically, year by year, as people expect "the goverment" i.e. "not me or mine" to step up and help those who find themselves riding their own particular handbaskets. The only people who are still compelled, despite both financial and social incentives to get down in the gutter will be those whose religious fervor is sufficient to overcome these barriers.

As you have discovered, this doesn't always work as well as it might.

[pathia]

When I came out, I was disowned and kicked out.

[gothelittle]

Have you ever wondered why "private" can be practically replaced by "religious"? What's stopping other people who practice your lifestyle from aiding their own?

It couldn't be lack. The average such person is richer in money and goods than the average religious person.

[pathia]

Absolutely not, over 50% of the trans population is under the poverty line.

Edit: You're probably thinking of gays, but there is alot of contention between gays and transsexuals. Outright hate in some situations. We're viewed as a burden/tagalong.

[gothelittle]

Oh, I did not know that. Thanks for the extra info! I was thinking of gays, yes.

[pathia]

One problem with measuring it is that homelessness is so high, you can't really measure those folks at all. So, that 50% is on a study done with mostly people that actually had a house. I wouldn't be surprised if our average lifespan is 20-30years shorter than the rest of the country is either. The a higher murder rate of trans folk in this country, than the murder rate in Columbia.

[gothelittle]

Was the murder rate factored into the lifespan?

I'm no doctor, but I do wonder how much of it has to do with the condition itself and the medicine involved with it.

I'm speaking as a woman with endometriosis who reacts poorly to artificial forms of the female hormones. I had to go off my medication (which was basically dosages of estrogen and progesterone) because it was wreaking havoc on my body. Had to learn alternate forms of controlling the symptoms, including herbalism, and I had to really LEARN that, because half the common 'wonder drinks' on the market have stuff that's no good for endo. I have to watch my soy intake, too.

I've met other women who have really gotten very sick on artificial hormones. I haven't seen any studies on whether it's enough body stress to be life-shortening, though.

[pathia]

The murderrate is factored into lifespan. The medicine might reduce lifespans, but only 5years or so, not as much as one might think.

Keep in mind, our endocrine system is shut down, entirely. Even when a genetic female goes through menopause, they make SOME hormones.

In my case, I make *NONE*. I would have died in the first years of life if there hadn't been hormones available.

[gothelittle]

Ohh okay. You said "transsexuals", so I was thinking of all people, regardless of their health at birth, who underwent hormonal therapy in order to change their sex.

[pathia]

Anyone who's had the surgery will produce more or less zero hormones. No treatment of one way or the other, leads to bone degeneration, heart degeneration and death.

[ford_prefect42]

Here's the thing. You can see how things *have* worked out. The charities that are gone are gone, the government houses that are there are there, etcetera. What you cannot see, nor can anyone else, is what *didn't* happen. You cannot see the homes that have been closed due to excessive taxation, you cannot see the doctors that have stopped doing pro-bono work due to the broken tort system. This is not to say that the system would necessarily be better lacking these things, only that every path taken annihilates every path not taken

[pathia]

Private charities existed, there wasn't a lack for them, in fact there were quite a few.

The issue is, they rejected me at the door.