A Modern Jewish Review of Female Chauvanist Pigs: Women and the Rise of Raunch Culture

[jonahrank]

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A Modern Jewish Review of Female Chauvanist Pigs: Women and the Rise of Raunch Culture

A SECULAR READI found this book to be extremely important for understanding the moral issues surrounding the

Comments

[lady_eclectic]

Yasher koach! An excellent read. Thanks for sharing this.

I'm not too certain about banning premarital sex altogether... I am quite convinced that premarital sex in a committed, monogamous relationship *can* work. Apart from that, I agree with all your stuff. (Though is tzniut only about women wearing skirts? How about modest pants?)

Would you be interested in crossposting this to the community modest_style? They might enjoy it.

[jonahrank]

Berukhah tihyi! Thanks for reading

[lady_eclectic]

I'm very much a Rabbinic Jew, with all the kulot and chumrot that entails and I tend to be lenient when it comes to sexuality, which is partly cultural. (Even though I am a properly married woman myself ;)).

As for pants... I think most of the 'halachic' basis for it is anecdotal and more of the 'go and see what the community does' variety. You're right: no serious Orthodox posek has paskened along these lines that I know of and no serious Conservative posek(et) has done so either because it's considered a non-issue in a very 'trouser'-wearing social reality. This issue should definately be researched halachically. I wear modest pants but I also wear short sleeves: which I've seen in the Modern Orthodox community: just not in the context of shul perhaps.

Just out of curiosity: do you consider yourself Orthodox or kinda Halachic/Post-denominational? I wonder what hatam_soferet has to say about this post

[jonahrank]

Hmm... I actually tried crossposting this at the Modest Dress community, and it was deemed rather off-topic by a moderator, but I didn't try an LJ cut; that probably would have helped

[thegelf]

I agree with you, with one caveat. Premarital sex in a committed, monogamous relationship, with birth control, can work. Children outside of wedlock is where I draw the line.

[jonahrank]

Thanks for also reading!

One thing that keeps me wary here of birth control is that I don't know of any form of birth control (other than abortion) that has a 100% success rate.

Though I agree that birth control can play an important role and I feel, from a Jewish perspective, that we should not have children outside the context of marriage, I am uncomfortable espousing premarital sex when I am not guaranteed that procreation will be prevented.

[thegelf]

Combining birth control methods can lead to a nearly 100% success rate. When we start quibbling over tenths or hundredths of a percent in probability, I think we need to step back and have a different conversation. As a community, is it the sanctity of the act itself which should dictate the stance on premarital sex, or is it the potential for children? If there was a 100% effective method of birth control, would that then change the discussion?

I'm working on a longer response to your post, which I mostly very much agree with. It goes into the fractured state of feminism right now.

[jonahrank]

To answer your main question, I believe that the sanctity of the act itself should determine the stance on premarital sex. I believe that secular American pop culture has removed much of the aura of sanctity that Jews once more universally associated with sex. I believe this to be one cause for the great rift between Jewish sexual values and secular popular American sexual values.

[jonahrank]

P.S. I look forward to the long response!

Thanks so much again for reading and replying...