20x05 "Dignity" episode discussion
20x05 "Dignity"
DISCUSS!
My own commentary/quotes/opinions under the cut. Remember that the opinions expressed are mine and I don't expect everyone to agree with them.
The Law:
-Church service.
- neojess: They could just do the trifecta - he could be a gay abortion doctor who knew a political secret.
- This guy in the back looks kind of suspicious. Well, not kind of. More like SUPER-DUPER TROUBLE TIEMZ.
- I should be more serious. I’ll try.
- And there’s the death.
Bernard: Thank heaven for smokers.
Bernard: It has to be said - can I get a witness?
Guys, how am I supposed to be serious with one-liners like that??
Lupo: Maybe he should’ve prayed a little louder.
AND THAT.
- Abortions done in Riverdale. He was shot once before there, by a protester who’s in jail.
- Van Buren there early on. This means srs business time. Even more serious than Larry Plus Ten.
Van Buren: We are talking about the usual suspects here, right?
Lupo: The only suspects according to the wife.
Lupo: Chemo must be a real picnic.
- Mission for Life - “fanatics” who “have a grudging respect for Dr. Benning.”
- Uh-oh, Bernard seems pretty opposed to the abortion doctor. Lupo’s not liking his partner’s attitude, either. Lupo is also having a squashed hair day.
- Van Buren’s not responding to chemo very well. No shrinkage of the tumor. Her doctor does not seem too hopeful.
Van Buren: The nausea I can handle. Dying, not so much. Bring it on, Doctor. Whatever it takes.
Lupo: Forget the abortion debate. You should need a permit to have kids.
Lupo: Not to step on your freedom of speech, but we’re not here to argue with witnesses.
Lupo: Then you and I got nothing to talk about.
Oh, shit. Fight. Really stereotypical “both sides of the argument” fight.
Lupo: So I almost had another partner.
Bernard: That’s all I’m saying.
Glad that was what Bernard’s “connection” to the story was. I was worried they were doing ANOTHER repeat of the my-girlfriend-had-an-abortion thing. (Original story was Mike Logan’s, they did a repeat later on w/ Ed Green).
I’m confused as to the pregnant girl’s connection to the murder….right, boyfriend called the abortion clinic, then they talked to the pregnant girl, who wanted a late-term abortion b/c fetus had syndrome. She told them about her dad, who wanted her to keep the baby. Now he’s dead so no abortion = motive for murdering him. Right. Okay.
Bernard: That’s one security guard who just earned his minimum wage.
- And yet Bernard demands information from the dad on the killer, pretty forcefully.
- RICHARD THOMAS as the lawyer. JOHN-BOY. Bahahaha.
- Guy’s name is Wayne. They go to talk to his ex-wife. Ew, Olive Garden. Between that and my crappy dinner, I think I wanna barf now.
Wayne’s kid: You’re cops. Figure it out.
Hah.
HAHAHAHAHA. Lupo is FDNY and Bernard is in scrubs for the RANDOM. I need caps of this. Yeah.
- John-Boy says his client wants to surrender.
- It was the sullen kid!
Lupo: I see you care about the environment.
…that made me laugh.
Kid: My dad said never trust authority.
Lupo: No argument here.
He looked too happy about that.
- Yeahhh, Facebook reference, while talking to Wayne’s apparent other ex.
- She’s so hiding Wayne!
- Lupo will kick your ass-I mean, door.
Bernard: An energy-saving tip, Wayne. Don’t run from the police.
- SVU PREVIEW - since when were Porter and Liv lovers?
The Order:
- Connie and Mike don’t believe John-Boy.
- Srsly, if I was Alana and Linus, I’d just be like “JOHN BOY” the entire time.
- Ew, Wayne looks skanky.
- More typical arguments re: abortions.
- Hey, John-Boy, have you seen Mary Ellen, lately? (no, no I won’t stop the Waltons references).
- I have no idea what just happened - oh, justification defense being allowed.
Cutter: Judge, this is unprecedented. You’re opening Pandora’s Box.
Rubirosa: We didn’t want this trial to be about abortion and now we have no choice.
Cutter: An unborn child is a life and a soul to me. I can be PC in the courtroom, but when I’m in my own office…
McCoy: You’re in my office, and we’re not debating abortion.
- Jack’s going to be a grandpa! Or already is. I thought he said “grandchild-to-be.”
- Connie talks to Benning’s former nurse, gets name of patient whose already-born, brain-damaged child was killed by Benning.
- Connie says “Rubirosa” all accent-y.
- Connie says they need to tell the other borough’s DA and that they’re required to turn over murder info to defense even though Benning is already dead. Cutter and McCoy say they don’t have to turn information over b/c it’s not exculpatory and defense will only use it out of context or what have you.
McCoy: So you both best pretend you never heard it.
- Damn, Jack. Just…damn.
- I could have sworn I’d seen John-Boy’s red and blue striped tie on Jack McCoy before. I think someone said something about seeing a defense tie on Jack before, as well. Ah, budget cutting.
- Doctor on the stand testifying about how abortion is a right, etc. John-Boy grills him.
McCoy: So now we know there are fanatics in both camps.
- Witness - Lisa Barnett. L&O uses the name Barnett a lot. Barnett was advised to have a late-term abortion, but chose to let her child “die with dignity” after being naturally born.
- John-Boy’s witness is allowed, despite Connie arguing otherwise to the judge.
- Barnett describes the baby in detail. Pics of Barnett’s baby, being used to I assume, bias the jury.
- Connie trying not to cry, even. Even Mike looks affected by the testimony. ...and even though they know it's a ploy.
Cutter:You’re a brave woman, Mrs. Barnett. Is it possible at another time in your life you might have made a different choice?
Mrs. Barnett: Yes.
Cutter: And would you consider a doctor who offers late-term abortions to women in your position….as providing an essential medical service?
Mrs. Barnett: I would have to say yes.
Cutter: Nothing further.
- Jack and Mike debate time.
Cutter: Cats and dogs have more rights than the unborn.
- the nurse who knew about the killing has been called by the defense.
- Mike gets accused of sabotage by Jack.
Mike: You’re the one who thinks I like to win too much.
- Connie admits to having done it. WHAT? Just...WHAT? I'm sorry, I'll say it again, WHAT and I'll add, THE FUCK?
Connie: I can’t be instructed to violate my ethics.
- Nurse on stand.
- Cutter is barely holding it together, he’s so pissed. At least, it seems like it.
Cutter: I don’t know what got into you to tell the defense.
Cutter: You of all people, Connie. I thought you wanted to win this case.
Cutter: You want moral clarity? How about just doing your job. Put the bad guys in jail.
Rubirosa: I’m glad that it’s so clear-cut for you, Mike.
Cutter: [holding victim’s wallet] I can’t do this. There’s just been too much heartbreaking testimony. Too much. We’re dealing with an issue here that goes to the very mystery of our existence. What is life? When does it begin? At conception? At viability? At birth? In good faith, we seek guidance from our moral leaders, from scientists. We want so much to do the right thing, the just thing. We want reason and empathy to lead us to an answer. And we struggle so much to find that answer. Why? Because despite all our differences, we are joined in one belief. That every life is special and unique and imbued with inalienable rights. And that belief compels us to reject the violence and unreasoned chaos that Wayne Grogan’s act represents. Thank you.
- Wayne Grogan found guilty.
- Connie asks for a transfer. WHAT?
- People aren’t lining up to work with Cutter. Hahahahaa.
Jack: It’s a big, messy world. Work it out.
Cutter & Rubirosa: *exchange silent conversation*
neojess: If the theme was ‘the team doesn’t always get along together’, BFD, and it was lame to have the cops AND the lawyers all fighting.
I agree completely. We get that America is divided over the issue, did we really need to see SO MUCH personal info from each of the characters on it? Did they all have to have such personal views? While I like getting personal tidbits here and there, I don't usually watch Law & Order to get civics lessons or deep details on the characters, much as I adore said characters. To me, part of the pleasure is that they DON'T give you a lot on the characters and they keep us guessing and making up our own stuff. This entire episode made me uneasy and not in an "I'm uncomfortable about the issues" way. It was more of a "What show have I stepped into?" feeling.
Attention: rambly, disjointed opinion following. Apologies, but this episode was the biggest clusterfuck I’ve seen for awhile and as such, I can barely see straight and my thoughts are really jumbled.
I was really disappointed in what they wrote for Connie. I found it really out-of-character and just…I don’t even know. Saccharin. Both her and Cutter’s opinions seemed…out-of-nowhere. Even Bernard’s story was random and just…tacked-on. Honestly, the only one I didn’t have an issue with this episode was Lupo, probably because they didn't write a lot for him. He wasn’t overly for or against one side - just there to do his damn job. Oh, and Jack was just fine. Cranky and not wanting ANYONE'S bullshit. I did respect Cutter’s ability to put his emotions aside for the sake of the case, as much as he could. I also liked his closing argument - he delivered it perfectly. In addition, I thought McCoy’s end - telling them to work it out and that the world is messy was good. I wanted to enjoy the unspoken Cutter/Rubirosa conversation at the end, but I was so baffled by the entire episode that I couldn't.
I thought Connie asking for a transfer was epically lame. I would have thought that by now they were all good enough colleagues to be able to discuss things. As I said, everything for her just seemed really out-of-character this episode. All in all, I’d much rather disregard this episode.
Seriously. Good night, John-Boy.
DISCUSS!
My own commentary/quotes/opinions under the cut. Remember that the opinions expressed are mine and I don't expect everyone to agree with them.
The Law:
-Church service.
- neojess: They could just do the trifecta - he could be a gay abortion doctor who knew a political secret.
- This guy in the back looks kind of suspicious. Well, not kind of. More like SUPER-DUPER TROUBLE TIEMZ.
- I should be more serious. I’ll try.
- And there’s the death.
Bernard: Thank heaven for smokers.
Bernard: It has to be said - can I get a witness?
Guys, how am I supposed to be serious with one-liners like that??
Lupo: Maybe he should’ve prayed a little louder.
AND THAT.
- Abortions done in Riverdale. He was shot once before there, by a protester who’s in jail.
- Van Buren there early on. This means srs business time. Even more serious than Larry Plus Ten.
Van Buren: We are talking about the usual suspects here, right?
Lupo: The only suspects according to the wife.
Lupo: Chemo must be a real picnic.
- Mission for Life - “fanatics” who “have a grudging respect for Dr. Benning.”
- Uh-oh, Bernard seems pretty opposed to the abortion doctor. Lupo’s not liking his partner’s attitude, either. Lupo is also having a squashed hair day.
- Van Buren’s not responding to chemo very well. No shrinkage of the tumor. Her doctor does not seem too hopeful.
Van Buren: The nausea I can handle. Dying, not so much. Bring it on, Doctor. Whatever it takes.
Lupo: Forget the abortion debate. You should need a permit to have kids.
Lupo: Not to step on your freedom of speech, but we’re not here to argue with witnesses.
Lupo: Then you and I got nothing to talk about.
Oh, shit. Fight. Really stereotypical “both sides of the argument” fight.
Lupo: So I almost had another partner.
Bernard: That’s all I’m saying.
Glad that was what Bernard’s “connection” to the story was. I was worried they were doing ANOTHER repeat of the my-girlfriend-had-an-abortion thing. (Original story was Mike Logan’s, they did a repeat later on w/ Ed Green).
I’m confused as to the pregnant girl’s connection to the murder….right, boyfriend called the abortion clinic, then they talked to the pregnant girl, who wanted a late-term abortion b/c fetus had syndrome. She told them about her dad, who wanted her to keep the baby. Now he’s dead so no abortion = motive for murdering him. Right. Okay.
Bernard: That’s one security guard who just earned his minimum wage.
- And yet Bernard demands information from the dad on the killer, pretty forcefully.
- RICHARD THOMAS as the lawyer. JOHN-BOY. Bahahaha.
- Guy’s name is Wayne. They go to talk to his ex-wife. Ew, Olive Garden. Between that and my crappy dinner, I think I wanna barf now.
Wayne’s kid: You’re cops. Figure it out.
Hah.
HAHAHAHAHA. Lupo is FDNY and Bernard is in scrubs for the RANDOM. I need caps of this. Yeah.
- John-Boy says his client wants to surrender.
- It was the sullen kid!
Lupo: I see you care about the environment.
…that made me laugh.
Kid: My dad said never trust authority.
Lupo: No argument here.
He looked too happy about that.
- Yeahhh, Facebook reference, while talking to Wayne’s apparent other ex.
- She’s so hiding Wayne!
- Lupo will kick your ass-I mean, door.
Bernard: An energy-saving tip, Wayne. Don’t run from the police.
- SVU PREVIEW - since when were Porter and Liv lovers?
The Order:
- Connie and Mike don’t believe John-Boy.
- Srsly, if I was Alana and Linus, I’d just be like “JOHN BOY” the entire time.
- Ew, Wayne looks skanky.
- More typical arguments re: abortions.
- Hey, John-Boy, have you seen Mary Ellen, lately? (no, no I won’t stop the Waltons references).
- I have no idea what just happened - oh, justification defense being allowed.
Cutter: Judge, this is unprecedented. You’re opening Pandora’s Box.
Rubirosa: We didn’t want this trial to be about abortion and now we have no choice.
Cutter: An unborn child is a life and a soul to me. I can be PC in the courtroom, but when I’m in my own office…
McCoy: You’re in my office, and we’re not debating abortion.
- Jack’s going to be a grandpa! Or already is. I thought he said “grandchild-to-be.”
- Connie talks to Benning’s former nurse, gets name of patient whose already-born, brain-damaged child was killed by Benning.
- Connie says “Rubirosa” all accent-y.
- Connie says they need to tell the other borough’s DA and that they’re required to turn over murder info to defense even though Benning is already dead. Cutter and McCoy say they don’t have to turn information over b/c it’s not exculpatory and defense will only use it out of context or what have you.
McCoy: So you both best pretend you never heard it.
- Damn, Jack. Just…damn.
- I could have sworn I’d seen John-Boy’s red and blue striped tie on Jack McCoy before. I think someone said something about seeing a defense tie on Jack before, as well. Ah, budget cutting.
- Doctor on the stand testifying about how abortion is a right, etc. John-Boy grills him.
McCoy: So now we know there are fanatics in both camps.
- Witness - Lisa Barnett. L&O uses the name Barnett a lot. Barnett was advised to have a late-term abortion, but chose to let her child “die with dignity” after being naturally born.
- John-Boy’s witness is allowed, despite Connie arguing otherwise to the judge.
- Barnett describes the baby in detail. Pics of Barnett’s baby, being used to I assume, bias the jury.
- Connie trying not to cry, even. Even Mike looks affected by the testimony. ...and even though they know it's a ploy.
Cutter:You’re a brave woman, Mrs. Barnett. Is it possible at another time in your life you might have made a different choice?
Mrs. Barnett: Yes.
Cutter: And would you consider a doctor who offers late-term abortions to women in your position….as providing an essential medical service?
Mrs. Barnett: I would have to say yes.
Cutter: Nothing further.
- Jack and Mike debate time.
Cutter: Cats and dogs have more rights than the unborn.
- the nurse who knew about the killing has been called by the defense.
- Mike gets accused of sabotage by Jack.
Mike: You’re the one who thinks I like to win too much.
- Connie admits to having done it. WHAT? Just...WHAT? I'm sorry, I'll say it again, WHAT and I'll add, THE FUCK?
Connie: I can’t be instructed to violate my ethics.
- Nurse on stand.
- Cutter is barely holding it together, he’s so pissed. At least, it seems like it.
Cutter: I don’t know what got into you to tell the defense.
Cutter: You of all people, Connie. I thought you wanted to win this case.
Cutter: You want moral clarity? How about just doing your job. Put the bad guys in jail.
Rubirosa: I’m glad that it’s so clear-cut for you, Mike.
Cutter: [holding victim’s wallet] I can’t do this. There’s just been too much heartbreaking testimony. Too much. We’re dealing with an issue here that goes to the very mystery of our existence. What is life? When does it begin? At conception? At viability? At birth? In good faith, we seek guidance from our moral leaders, from scientists. We want so much to do the right thing, the just thing. We want reason and empathy to lead us to an answer. And we struggle so much to find that answer. Why? Because despite all our differences, we are joined in one belief. That every life is special and unique and imbued with inalienable rights. And that belief compels us to reject the violence and unreasoned chaos that Wayne Grogan’s act represents. Thank you.
- Wayne Grogan found guilty.
- Connie asks for a transfer. WHAT?
- People aren’t lining up to work with Cutter. Hahahahaa.
Jack: It’s a big, messy world. Work it out.
Cutter & Rubirosa: *exchange silent conversation*
neojess: If the theme was ‘the team doesn’t always get along together’, BFD, and it was lame to have the cops AND the lawyers all fighting.
I agree completely. We get that America is divided over the issue, did we really need to see SO MUCH personal info from each of the characters on it? Did they all have to have such personal views? While I like getting personal tidbits here and there, I don't usually watch Law & Order to get civics lessons or deep details on the characters, much as I adore said characters. To me, part of the pleasure is that they DON'T give you a lot on the characters and they keep us guessing and making up our own stuff. This entire episode made me uneasy and not in an "I'm uncomfortable about the issues" way. It was more of a "What show have I stepped into?" feeling.
Attention: rambly, disjointed opinion following. Apologies, but this episode was the biggest clusterfuck I’ve seen for awhile and as such, I can barely see straight and my thoughts are really jumbled.
I was really disappointed in what they wrote for Connie. I found it really out-of-character and just…I don’t even know. Saccharin. Both her and Cutter’s opinions seemed…out-of-nowhere. Even Bernard’s story was random and just…tacked-on. Honestly, the only one I didn’t have an issue with this episode was Lupo, probably because they didn't write a lot for him. He wasn’t overly for or against one side - just there to do his damn job. Oh, and Jack was just fine. Cranky and not wanting ANYONE'S bullshit. I did respect Cutter’s ability to put his emotions aside for the sake of the case, as much as he could. I also liked his closing argument - he delivered it perfectly. In addition, I thought McCoy’s end - telling them to work it out and that the world is messy was good. I wanted to enjoy the unspoken Cutter/Rubirosa conversation at the end, but I was so baffled by the entire episode that I couldn't.
I thought Connie asking for a transfer was epically lame. I would have thought that by now they were all good enough colleagues to be able to discuss things. As I said, everything for her just seemed really out-of-character this episode. All in all, I’d much rather disregard this episode.
Seriously. Good night, John-Boy.