couples_therapy 44.5 (28.1 - Reveal)
[LOCKED - For JP, but open for Doug to read. Both of you, contribute all you want. I want you to.]
This was really hard. And it's really long. Just so you know.
I've been thinking all day. I've been trying to work this out in my head. And I've written it a whole bunch of times. Jean-Paul, I kinda wish your Mistletoe post hadn't gone up at the same time as your convo with Peter and my just_sayit threads. I think it could have been two different situations to deal with. The mistletoe thing, I probably could have handled better, if all the other stuff wasn't coming up at the same time, and my reaction wouldn't have been... what it was. But it did, and it was, so now it's like it's mushed into one big, messy thing. So we'll deal with it
Yes, I'm jealous. We know this. Yes, I'm totally committed to you and Doug, and yes I know that you are too. I honestly believe that. And I know "how you are", and did before for started our relationship, and when we started our relationship. I know that we made those "rules." The rules were, and are, important. It helped us define just what we have. And yes we left open that option of possible outside sexual contact-- to at least be discussed and stuff. I'm not saying that we didn't, because I know we did. And I want to go by that, and I respect them, and the fact you both have the choice to do that.
But do you remember what else was in those rules? That you and I were boyfriends, and that you and Doug were casual. That changed, obviously, and we didn't have to voice it. You and Doug are not casual. It just happened.
And do you know what else just happened. The fact that you didn't want to mess around with any other guys. I checked in with you, on more then one occasion, and you said you were happy with just us. That the three of us had a good thing. Fuck, you brought it up yourself more then once too. You didn't want anyone else. We were enough.
You were changing. Maybe that's not the right word. Growth might be. I don't know that either. All I know is that, our relationships were settling and defining and stuff like that, and you were happy with just the three of it. It wasn't a full out, "JP, you've changed!" Or you saying, "I'm going to change for you guys!" or anything like that. It just happened. It felt natural.
But that changed too. Or, I don't know, you stepped back into what you were, and maybe that is exactly who you are. Maybe I got too comfortable with what we had or whatever, thinking that it would just stay the three of us. Or whatever. But it has changed again and now you're back on the same page you were before.
And your attitude yesterday, and the things you were saying... yeah. I got tripped up, okay? Like I said, I got too comfortable and now. Yeah. It kinda hurt. It feels like (and I'm not saying this is how YOU feel about it, I'm saying this is how I feel about it) but it feels like we're not enough. Our relationships aren't enough. Our sex isn't enough. Hell, even our kisses aren't enough. You want something that isn't us.
And, I just have to say, this comment (which, yeah, I know you made to someone else) - I signed up for non-monogamy kinda... well. It made me, I don't know. Hurt, angry, sad, I don't even know, but mostly I heard it, like, you only entered a relationship with us because you knew you could mess around. As if Doug and I were not enough, or our polyamorous triad wasn't actually enough away from monogamy or whatever. It's felt like you were saying, well. That you're only dating us because you knew you could date other people. You're looking beyond us for something else or something. And I know, well I hope, that's not true. You're with us for us. But it still hurt that you said that.
Anyway. I digress a bit, because I need to say this: The reason the two of us aren't enough for you to (how should I word this?)... naturally flow to someone who is just fine with the three of us, like you were saying for months and months but suddenly stopped... the reason you stopped thinking that, even if subconsciously... Well. Now, there are pretty boys around who flirt back with you, and would possibly indulge in your sexual desire for them. Now? Now we're not enough because it's like you remember, oh yeah. I can sleep with other guys, we agreed, so I want to. Those guys... and I'm not trying to say anything against them because they seem nice enough and this isn't about them, it's about you... well. They made you realize that you didn't want to change, not even naturally. You were starting to change and it just... it's like you refuse to.
I know that's probably not true, any of it. But it's how I am feeling and how I am seeing things. And, yes, okay. I am feeling and seeing through intense jealousy in some situations right now. Not all. And I am trying so hard not to, I promise. I'm doing okay, I think. I haven't actually blown up at you or anyone else. And I believe you when you say you won't act on anything until we talk about it, I do. Please believe that I believe that. I don't think you'll go messing around behind my back, I don't.
But that's the thing, right? Maybe you just really do want to get laid by other guys. And I'm going to have to accept that. I know it's how you feel. And I never ONCE said it was wrong so don't you fucking say I did. No one did. They were trying to give you their opinion and it's different then yours so, like, everyone got defensive. That happens what happens when people think differently. Fuck, don't I know it. Anyway.
Please don't think anything I'm saying is 'you're wrong, JP', or trying to put blame on you, or any of that. I swear, I'm not. I even feel like that's how this is going, but I'm not trying to do that. I'm just trying to tell you how I'm feeling, how I'm perceiving things, and that's all. Please remember that. And I know you'll clarify me and tell me I'm being wrong about that. And that's okay, I swear it. So. Yeah. I guess I'll continue.
I want you to listen to me very very carefully right now: If you fucking say one more time you're going to leave if either of us turn into you, I'll fucking flip out. I will lose it. I don't want to hear about you leaving. You wouldn't want to hear me saying that and I don't want it from you. Got it?
Because, and you have to remember this: What I say? What I do? I am not turning into you. I am not you. I am me. I am saying and doing things according to me. And when I say that I want to change, that'll I'll do whatever you want me to do to make you happy... This is because I want to. I want you to be happy. It's not because I feel badly. I repeat: I DO NOT FEEL BAD. Don't project yourself onto me, Jean-Paul. It makes me happy to make you happy and it's what I want to do. It's all I want to do.
And, I have to say one more thing. Because, maybe you don't get it. I've already compromised. I've already changed.... you are my compromise. You are my change. And don't feel bad about that, because I don't. I'm happy, I am really truly happy. But let me explain.
Douglas Ramsey is the love of my life. The One, if you believe in that sort of thing. I want to be with him forever and ever and 'till the end of our days sort of thing. Fuck, I'd marry him, if I could do that and he wanted it. I'll do whatever he wants to make him happy.
But then there was you. After I was cured, when we knew I wasn't going to die, but hell, maybe even before it... I was starting to develop feelings for you. I denied them, for so long, because... It was like my head was telling me it wasn't right. I couldn't betray Doug. I couldn't do that to him. It took Doug telling me that I had a thing for you before I would let myself believe it. And that was, like, the night he told us it was okay to fuck, and then we did. But I knew that night, when we had that talk, that it wasn't just going to be a fuck. You're more then that to me. You'll always be. But being with you... that was a big change for me, JP. I did change. I adjusted. I grew. I don't care what the fuck you want to call it, I changed for you and I'm so fucking happy I did. And I'll do it more. And don't you dare tell me not to. Because, you know what?
Jean-Paul Beaubier is the love of my life. The one, if you believe in that sort of thing. I want to be with him forever and ever and 'till the end of our days sort of thing. Fuck, I'd marry him, if I could do that and he wanted it. I'll do whatever he wants to make him happy.
I remember this post Doug made when I was dying, and we thought there was no cure. He was wondering about 'The One' and if I was it, or if he would move on and find another one. I told him that I wanted him to find someone new, that I think there was that chance to find another The One. That it was okay.
Well. I found him. And now I have two. I have two The Ones at the same time. I didn't think that would happen, not at all. I mean... it was unexpected. And, JP, I wouldn't be doing this two relationships thing with just anybody. You know that, right? In addition to Doug, it's for you. So I can be with both my guys.
But I have to say... it wasn't easy. That switch, that change. I kinda told you about it, but I had panic attacks for, like, a couple weeks. I was worried about what I did my and Doug's relationship, that maybe I ruined it. That Doug would feel exactly like how I'm feeling-- inadequate, wrong, disappointing, not enough. All that stuff. And I thought that maybe I'd lose you both.
It took time, but I did get over that. We became... us. The three of us. The Triad. The Threesome. And, I promise, I couldn't be happier. It's not just for you or for Doug but I'm being a selfish ass because it's for me too. It's what I want, and I'm glad you're both on board with that.
Except. Well. For above mentioned reasons, in my head, sometimes it doesn't feel like you are. But that's the stupid, irrational, insecure part of me. I know this. And I push it down most the time, I do. But, like I said, I got tripped up bad recently. It's MY issue to deal with, okay? Not yours.
But I think that's part of my problem about the 'open' part of what you want our relationship to be. I don't know if I can be like that. I have the two guys I want to spend the rest of my life with. I'm seriously in love with you both, and I'm totally committed to both of you. (I'm not saying you don't feel the same way, okay? I'm just trying to get across how I feel.) And to me, it's just... kissing is something important and intimate to me. Kissing other guys does meant, well. Maybe not cheating, but not being as faithful? I thought I was more flexible on that, but I guess I'm not. I guess I'm just really with what I have.
And, I know you're different. That you feel differently. We just view kissing on two different levels of intimacy and importance, I guess. It's not that I think you're wrong, it's just that... well. I feel differently than that. Stupid irrational emotions, I guess. And actually sleeping with another guy? That's really hard to wrap my head around. JP, I used kissing as a way to break up with Doug, remember when I was trying to 'save him' and had to push him away. Kissing. It means something to me, and fooling around with other guys means... well. Not good things. But that's MY feelings on it, MY opinions. I understand you have different ones and that you're not trying to hurt me. Like I said, it trips me up. I'll have to get over it. It's okay. I'll work on it. I want to do that for you. (Remember what I said about not getting mad at that.) But it is an issue for me. You gotta understand that too. Those rules? I didn't agree to them for me. I did for you because I knew it's what you wanted and would make you happy, and I thought maybe you were past it but I guess not, so I need to change and catch up. I'll admit it, it won't be easy for me. It's not going to come as naturally as changing from monogamy topolyamoury. But I will work on it. I want to. For you.
Now, on a last note, that goddamn mistletoe thing. Fine. General consensus is that it's just for fun. Fine. Whatever. I can get past the holidays. Admittedly, if, like, it happened with those guys I mentioned that I didn't really mention? That's probably what makes me wary of it. Because, well. You want them, so. What if it wasn't just kissing? Just for fun? It'll mean more to you. And that makes me, well. Worried. Worried and jealous. But, whatever. My own hang up. I'll get over it. So, yeah. Go for mistletoe.
I'm madly in love with you, Jean-Paul Beaubier. (And you, Douglas Ramsey.) I want you both happy. I'm not lying when I said I'll do whatever it take for that to happen and no, I don't feel bad for it. Even if I have issues with certain stuff. I'll deal. I'll get over it. And you'll help me with that, right? I know you will. And it's okay. That's what boyfriends are supposed to do, right?
Love you. So much.
Okay, JP. Let's hear your plan.
This was really hard. And it's really long. Just so you know.
I've been thinking all day. I've been trying to work this out in my head. And I've written it a whole bunch of times. Jean-Paul, I kinda wish your Mistletoe post hadn't gone up at the same time as your convo with Peter and my just_sayit threads. I think it could have been two different situations to deal with. The mistletoe thing, I probably could have handled better, if all the other stuff wasn't coming up at the same time, and my reaction wouldn't have been... what it was. But it did, and it was, so now it's like it's mushed into one big, messy thing. So we'll deal with it
Yes, I'm jealous. We know this. Yes, I'm totally committed to you and Doug, and yes I know that you are too. I honestly believe that. And I know "how you are", and did before for started our relationship, and when we started our relationship. I know that we made those "rules." The rules were, and are, important. It helped us define just what we have. And yes we left open that option of possible outside sexual contact-- to at least be discussed and stuff. I'm not saying that we didn't, because I know we did. And I want to go by that, and I respect them, and the fact you both have the choice to do that.
But do you remember what else was in those rules? That you and I were boyfriends, and that you and Doug were casual. That changed, obviously, and we didn't have to voice it. You and Doug are not casual. It just happened.
And do you know what else just happened. The fact that you didn't want to mess around with any other guys. I checked in with you, on more then one occasion, and you said you were happy with just us. That the three of us had a good thing. Fuck, you brought it up yourself more then once too. You didn't want anyone else. We were enough.
You were changing. Maybe that's not the right word. Growth might be. I don't know that either. All I know is that, our relationships were settling and defining and stuff like that, and you were happy with just the three of it. It wasn't a full out, "JP, you've changed!" Or you saying, "I'm going to change for you guys!" or anything like that. It just happened. It felt natural.
But that changed too. Or, I don't know, you stepped back into what you were, and maybe that is exactly who you are. Maybe I got too comfortable with what we had or whatever, thinking that it would just stay the three of us. Or whatever. But it has changed again and now you're back on the same page you were before.
And your attitude yesterday, and the things you were saying... yeah. I got tripped up, okay? Like I said, I got too comfortable and now. Yeah. It kinda hurt. It feels like (and I'm not saying this is how YOU feel about it, I'm saying this is how I feel about it) but it feels like we're not enough. Our relationships aren't enough. Our sex isn't enough. Hell, even our kisses aren't enough. You want something that isn't us.
And, I just have to say, this comment (which, yeah, I know you made to someone else) - I signed up for non-monogamy kinda... well. It made me, I don't know. Hurt, angry, sad, I don't even know, but mostly I heard it, like, you only entered a relationship with us because you knew you could mess around. As if Doug and I were not enough, or our polyamorous triad wasn't actually enough away from monogamy or whatever. It's felt like you were saying, well. That you're only dating us because you knew you could date other people. You're looking beyond us for something else or something. And I know, well I hope, that's not true. You're with us for us. But it still hurt that you said that.
Anyway. I digress a bit, because I need to say this: The reason the two of us aren't enough for you to (how should I word this?)... naturally flow to someone who is just fine with the three of us, like you were saying for months and months but suddenly stopped... the reason you stopped thinking that, even if subconsciously... Well. Now, there are pretty boys around who flirt back with you, and would possibly indulge in your sexual desire for them. Now? Now we're not enough because it's like you remember, oh yeah. I can sleep with other guys, we agreed, so I want to. Those guys... and I'm not trying to say anything against them because they seem nice enough and this isn't about them, it's about you... well. They made you realize that you didn't want to change, not even naturally. You were starting to change and it just... it's like you refuse to.
I know that's probably not true, any of it. But it's how I am feeling and how I am seeing things. And, yes, okay. I am feeling and seeing through intense jealousy in some situations right now. Not all. And I am trying so hard not to, I promise. I'm doing okay, I think. I haven't actually blown up at you or anyone else. And I believe you when you say you won't act on anything until we talk about it, I do. Please believe that I believe that. I don't think you'll go messing around behind my back, I don't.
But that's the thing, right? Maybe you just really do want to get laid by other guys. And I'm going to have to accept that. I know it's how you feel. And I never ONCE said it was wrong so don't you fucking say I did. No one did. They were trying to give you their opinion and it's different then yours so, like, everyone got defensive. That happens what happens when people think differently. Fuck, don't I know it. Anyway.
Please don't think anything I'm saying is 'you're wrong, JP', or trying to put blame on you, or any of that. I swear, I'm not. I even feel like that's how this is going, but I'm not trying to do that. I'm just trying to tell you how I'm feeling, how I'm perceiving things, and that's all. Please remember that. And I know you'll clarify me and tell me I'm being wrong about that. And that's okay, I swear it. So. Yeah. I guess I'll continue.
I want you to listen to me very very carefully right now: If you fucking say one more time you're going to leave if either of us turn into you, I'll fucking flip out. I will lose it. I don't want to hear about you leaving. You wouldn't want to hear me saying that and I don't want it from you. Got it?
Because, and you have to remember this: What I say? What I do? I am not turning into you. I am not you. I am me. I am saying and doing things according to me. And when I say that I want to change, that'll I'll do whatever you want me to do to make you happy... This is because I want to. I want you to be happy. It's not because I feel badly. I repeat: I DO NOT FEEL BAD. Don't project yourself onto me, Jean-Paul. It makes me happy to make you happy and it's what I want to do. It's all I want to do.
And, I have to say one more thing. Because, maybe you don't get it. I've already compromised. I've already changed.... you are my compromise. You are my change. And don't feel bad about that, because I don't. I'm happy, I am really truly happy. But let me explain.
Douglas Ramsey is the love of my life. The One, if you believe in that sort of thing. I want to be with him forever and ever and 'till the end of our days sort of thing. Fuck, I'd marry him, if I could do that and he wanted it. I'll do whatever he wants to make him happy.
But then there was you. After I was cured, when we knew I wasn't going to die, but hell, maybe even before it... I was starting to develop feelings for you. I denied them, for so long, because... It was like my head was telling me it wasn't right. I couldn't betray Doug. I couldn't do that to him. It took Doug telling me that I had a thing for you before I would let myself believe it. And that was, like, the night he told us it was okay to fuck, and then we did. But I knew that night, when we had that talk, that it wasn't just going to be a fuck. You're more then that to me. You'll always be. But being with you... that was a big change for me, JP. I did change. I adjusted. I grew. I don't care what the fuck you want to call it, I changed for you and I'm so fucking happy I did. And I'll do it more. And don't you dare tell me not to. Because, you know what?
Jean-Paul Beaubier is the love of my life. The one, if you believe in that sort of thing. I want to be with him forever and ever and 'till the end of our days sort of thing. Fuck, I'd marry him, if I could do that and he wanted it. I'll do whatever he wants to make him happy.
I remember this post Doug made when I was dying, and we thought there was no cure. He was wondering about 'The One' and if I was it, or if he would move on and find another one. I told him that I wanted him to find someone new, that I think there was that chance to find another The One. That it was okay.
Well. I found him. And now I have two. I have two The Ones at the same time. I didn't think that would happen, not at all. I mean... it was unexpected. And, JP, I wouldn't be doing this two relationships thing with just anybody. You know that, right? In addition to Doug, it's for you. So I can be with both my guys.
But I have to say... it wasn't easy. That switch, that change. I kinda told you about it, but I had panic attacks for, like, a couple weeks. I was worried about what I did my and Doug's relationship, that maybe I ruined it. That Doug would feel exactly like how I'm feeling-- inadequate, wrong, disappointing, not enough. All that stuff. And I thought that maybe I'd lose you both.
It took time, but I did get over that. We became... us. The three of us. The Triad. The Threesome. And, I promise, I couldn't be happier. It's not just for you or for Doug but I'm being a selfish ass because it's for me too. It's what I want, and I'm glad you're both on board with that.
Except. Well. For above mentioned reasons, in my head, sometimes it doesn't feel like you are. But that's the stupid, irrational, insecure part of me. I know this. And I push it down most the time, I do. But, like I said, I got tripped up bad recently. It's MY issue to deal with, okay? Not yours.
But I think that's part of my problem about the 'open' part of what you want our relationship to be. I don't know if I can be like that. I have the two guys I want to spend the rest of my life with. I'm seriously in love with you both, and I'm totally committed to both of you. (I'm not saying you don't feel the same way, okay? I'm just trying to get across how I feel.) And to me, it's just... kissing is something important and intimate to me. Kissing other guys does meant, well. Maybe not cheating, but not being as faithful? I thought I was more flexible on that, but I guess I'm not. I guess I'm just really with what I have.
And, I know you're different. That you feel differently. We just view kissing on two different levels of intimacy and importance, I guess. It's not that I think you're wrong, it's just that... well. I feel differently than that. Stupid irrational emotions, I guess. And actually sleeping with another guy? That's really hard to wrap my head around. JP, I used kissing as a way to break up with Doug, remember when I was trying to 'save him' and had to push him away. Kissing. It means something to me, and fooling around with other guys means... well. Not good things. But that's MY feelings on it, MY opinions. I understand you have different ones and that you're not trying to hurt me. Like I said, it trips me up. I'll have to get over it. It's okay. I'll work on it. I want to do that for you. (Remember what I said about not getting mad at that.) But it is an issue for me. You gotta understand that too. Those rules? I didn't agree to them for me. I did for you because I knew it's what you wanted and would make you happy, and I thought maybe you were past it but I guess not, so I need to change and catch up. I'll admit it, it won't be easy for me. It's not going to come as naturally as changing from monogamy topolyamoury. But I will work on it. I want to. For you.
Now, on a last note, that goddamn mistletoe thing. Fine. General consensus is that it's just for fun. Fine. Whatever. I can get past the holidays. Admittedly, if, like, it happened with those guys I mentioned that I didn't really mention? That's probably what makes me wary of it. Because, well. You want them, so. What if it wasn't just kissing? Just for fun? It'll mean more to you. And that makes me, well. Worried. Worried and jealous. But, whatever. My own hang up. I'll get over it. So, yeah. Go for mistletoe.
I'm madly in love with you, Jean-Paul Beaubier. (And you, Douglas Ramsey.) I want you both happy. I'm not lying when I said I'll do whatever it take for that to happen and no, I don't feel bad for it. Even if I have issues with certain stuff. I'll deal. I'll get over it. And you'll help me with that, right? I know you will. And it's okay. That's what boyfriends are supposed to do, right?
Love you. So much.
Okay, JP. Let's hear your plan.