the bechdel test and romance
I saw a discussion on metafandom this morning about the Bechdel test, and within the comments someone noted that the screwball comedies of the 40s passed, and that we're actually in a retrograde moment. Now, it's fairly traditional to talk about the portrayal of female characters being at a height of equality and depth in the 40s, and falling sharply thereafter, and I don't disagree with that general point.
But His Girl Friday doesn't pass the Bechdel test, however much Hildy is a wonderful female character … who was a man in the original play. Hildy has conversations with two other women-with Molly Malloy about the convict Earl Williams, and with Bruce's mother about Bruce. The Philadelphia Story doesn't pass, either; I can't think of a conversation Tracy has in that movie that isn't about George, Mike, Dexter or her father, whether she's talking to a man or to Liz/Dinah/her mother. And don't even get me started on classic musicals, particularly the Astaire-Rogers ones which are essentially screwball rom coms with music breaks.
But then, nearly all of the conversation in a romance or a romantic comedy is about the romantic plot, because, well, that's the plot. If we turn it around, Dexter doesn't have very many conversations in The Philadelphia Story that aren't about Tracy-and even the very few that aren't, such as when Mike tells him the story about Sidney Kidd, are mostly off screen and are covertly about Tracy, as that's how they get Tracy out of the blackmail threat. Mike and Dexter's conversation after the party, when Mike is drunk, is about Tracy and Liz.
The moments where some romances/rom coms/musicals might pass the test is in the B plot, if the B plot is non-romantic. But that goes to my point-a heterosexual romance plot is inherently about a man and a woman, and therefore can't pass the test.
So I wonder if by applying the Bechdel test to romances-romantic comedies, romantic musicals, any story driven by a romantic A plot-we're furthering the marginalization of the romantic plot. After all, the romantic plot already doesn't "count" as a plot, as we see so often not just in fandom but in conversations that female SF/F fans have with each other-when they say they want a story with a "plot", plot=action/adventure plot. Heck, the fact that SF/F fans use the term "genre" to only mean the SF/F genre, when both mystery and romance are genre fiction, furthers this-mystery and romance don't "count" as genres, perhaps because they are consumed mostly by women, and often created by them as well. They're girly, and therefore worthy of disdain and dismissal.
(This, by the way, is the source of my unholy hatred of Pride and Prejudice and Zombies. I used to be able to point to P&P as a great book in which "nothing happens", meaning, it only has a romantic plot. With everyone falling all over themselves about PPZ, I can no longer do that. "Nothing did happen," the reply would be, "and that's why there was room for zombies!")
If I'm interpreting the original comic correctly, the Bechdel test was about the marginalization of female characters and their position in the plot as mere reactors, or as objects to be in danger, or what have you. But women in romances talking about men is advancing the plot, is a reflection of their centrality to the plot. The plot in question just happens to be about a man and a woman falling in love. So perhaps the larger question is: does that still count as a plot worth reading/writing/discussing in a female-empowering way? Or do romances just, ultimately, fail?
But His Girl Friday doesn't pass the Bechdel test, however much Hildy is a wonderful female character … who was a man in the original play. Hildy has conversations with two other women-with Molly Malloy about the convict Earl Williams, and with Bruce's mother about Bruce. The Philadelphia Story doesn't pass, either; I can't think of a conversation Tracy has in that movie that isn't about George, Mike, Dexter or her father, whether she's talking to a man or to Liz/Dinah/her mother. And don't even get me started on classic musicals, particularly the Astaire-Rogers ones which are essentially screwball rom coms with music breaks.
But then, nearly all of the conversation in a romance or a romantic comedy is about the romantic plot, because, well, that's the plot. If we turn it around, Dexter doesn't have very many conversations in The Philadelphia Story that aren't about Tracy-and even the very few that aren't, such as when Mike tells him the story about Sidney Kidd, are mostly off screen and are covertly about Tracy, as that's how they get Tracy out of the blackmail threat. Mike and Dexter's conversation after the party, when Mike is drunk, is about Tracy and Liz.
The moments where some romances/rom coms/musicals might pass the test is in the B plot, if the B plot is non-romantic. But that goes to my point-a heterosexual romance plot is inherently about a man and a woman, and therefore can't pass the test.
So I wonder if by applying the Bechdel test to romances-romantic comedies, romantic musicals, any story driven by a romantic A plot-we're furthering the marginalization of the romantic plot. After all, the romantic plot already doesn't "count" as a plot, as we see so often not just in fandom but in conversations that female SF/F fans have with each other-when they say they want a story with a "plot", plot=action/adventure plot. Heck, the fact that SF/F fans use the term "genre" to only mean the SF/F genre, when both mystery and romance are genre fiction, furthers this-mystery and romance don't "count" as genres, perhaps because they are consumed mostly by women, and often created by them as well. They're girly, and therefore worthy of disdain and dismissal.
(This, by the way, is the source of my unholy hatred of Pride and Prejudice and Zombies. I used to be able to point to P&P as a great book in which "nothing happens", meaning, it only has a romantic plot. With everyone falling all over themselves about PPZ, I can no longer do that. "Nothing did happen," the reply would be, "and that's why there was room for zombies!")
If I'm interpreting the original comic correctly, the Bechdel test was about the marginalization of female characters and their position in the plot as mere reactors, or as objects to be in danger, or what have you. But women in romances talking about men is advancing the plot, is a reflection of their centrality to the plot. The plot in question just happens to be about a man and a woman falling in love. So perhaps the larger question is: does that still count as a plot worth reading/writing/discussing in a female-empowering way? Or do romances just, ultimately, fail?