[Other] Toshiya - Interview
01 Toshiya’s Voice
Let us deliver the latest interview with Toshiya.
Here, we asked for his true words about the following three topics: his roots, the album Uroboros, and the band Dir en grey.
About HIMSELF
The backbone that nurtured “Bassist Toshiya”
―First, can we hear about your roots as a bassist? What was your actual experience in music?
I wonder… I have to say kayoukyoku (note: Japanese hit songs). When I was in elementary school, they had Top 10. My mom really liked Julie (Kenji Sawada) and Anzen Chitai. She made me listen to that a lot.
―When did you begin to have your own interest in music?
Around higher grades in elementary school, everyone started talking about idols and I was influenced by them listening to them. Around junior high school, I was shocked when I first found out about X that was glitzy and extreme. But there’s always a guy around you that says, “You’re still listening to Japanese music (laugh)?” That guy handed me Gun’s (and Roses).
―You still like Gun’s today right? At a time when you just began to have your interest in music, you encountered something that influences you up to now.
Yes. But I was very late to really listen into music. I never really delved into music before. Around my third year in junior high (note: around freshmen year in American high school), I wanted to play guitar, and I asked an older brother of my friend, and he told me about Yngwie (Malmsteen), Europe (laugh). I also had Van Halen and Bon Jovi dubbed on a cassette tape, which were popular back then.
―What other people did you find that were inspiring artists?
In Japan, I guess it would be BUCK-TICK and Loudness. I really didn’t know the indie’s scene very well, and I heard about it for the first time once I entered high school. Around that time, I saw a clip of an event on television where Luna Sea was playing, and I thought, “This person is very cool,” which was J-san.
― Did you already have a guitar back then?
I couldn’t play at all and gave up. There was a difference between me and a person who started guitar together… This is boring kind of a thing (laugh). If I were to give other musical influence, the drummer in the band I was in back then really liked Pantera and Metallica, so I listened to that.
― Later on, what made you interested in bass guitar?
The guy who I was practicing guitar together was getting good, and I thought I would lose my position. At that time, there weren’t many people who did bass. Then I thought, let’s do bass instead.
―You gave J-san as a person that led you to be aware of bass, but what attracted you?
I liked the way he showed off (laugh). I really thought that he was cool. I think Luna Sea released Image at the time, but I really thought that this guy stood out. I always thought that bassist didn’t stand out, so the impact was bigger on my part. When I first told my parents that “I want bass guitar,” they told me, “that’s the one who doesn’t stand out right?” (laugh)
―(laugh)
I also thought, “Oh, yeah.” And during that time, I also liked Toshiro-san (Norio) from Ziggy. From Burney, he released his signature model. That was the bass guitar I bought for the first time.
―After you got your bass, did you have many people who became your hero?
There are too many so I don’t know (laugh). I’m the type to steal their good parts, so I think I’ve been influenced by them.
―So you dreamed to become a type of bass player that could do variety of things?
At first, I had a vision of how “I want to be like this, I want to be like that.” But as I continued to play, I thought that was impossible. For example, I can’t become the person whom I respect even if I want to because that person is who he is. Even if I say that I “like” that person and copy him, in the end, I merely become a second brew of tea (note: literal translation. It means he becomes a pallid imitation). Then, I would think to go on my own style. There are many great players (bass), so I steal what I think is cool of those people, and in the end, make them my own. I’m that type.
―For example, are there anything about yourself that was influenced by a particular person?
There’s a lot (laugh). Until now, I didn’t think that finger playing was really that cool. But when we went on tour with Deftones, my attitude changed after I saw Chi Cheng. Like Rob Trujillo, there are many cool people that play with their fingers, but I couldn’t get used to the idea that finger playing = someone who could perform highly with an instrument.
―Did you have anyone that is “For slapping, it’s this person?”
The very first person was TAIJI-san from X and IKÜZŌNE-san. On a sticky or free part, it was them. But once I tried it out, it was difficult and I gave up. I’m the type that tends to setback (laugh).
― (laugh). But you continued to try those (techniques) out every time you were influenced by someone. As a result, something remained inside of you, which constructed your current style. Then, is there someone who you consider for pick playing?
Pick playing… The one that hits me in the head would be Tsunematsu Matsu-san (laugh). You can’t imitate that, and it’s a great weapon. It would be great if I could become a player that is like down picking = Tsunematsu-san, but I don’t think I could be like that.
―Even so, there are many players that admire Dir en grey and copy you guys. Do you ever think about what these players think of you?
No. Conversely, I think it’s better not to use us as a reference (laugh).
―(laugh). But looking at Toshiya’s style from somewhere distant, I think it’s established.
I wonder…? I don’t think I would know that. But, I think I would be freer because I don’t know about it. Because of that I think it’s good. If I would be aware of how “My selling point is this,” I feel like I’m narrowing down my capacity.
―I see. Due to that, constriction forms.
Right, right. If you make your own rules, I think it creates more impediments. So I try not to think about that stuff and I want to be as I like. I also feel, “Don’t you do music because you want to break those rules?” But once you continue, surprisingly, one falls into those rules… I think there are many people like that.
―So it’s important to have flexibility in anything you do.
I think it’s important to get exposed to different things. Instead of having prejudice, you should see, hear, and challenge first. If it doesn’t suit you, then you should stop, and if there’s something that interests you, you should absorb that in. Also, I really don’t like someone saying, “I failed because I listened to this” when people told that person what to do.
―Do you mean that one should be responsible for oneself then?
Right, right. Just to listen to people’s advice, but you’re the one that will decide. When you listen to people, at times there could be things that exceed your expectation, but there are some that are below. You should listen to the information first and think about what you’ll do about it. With that in mind, you should decide you’ll do something that way or not. I think it’s important to have that approach.
about Uroboros
The World Standard of the Booming Record,
The Path Until Its Birth
―Now, let us hear about your new work, Uroboros. Listening to this, the tightness and heaviness of the sound is intense, and I felt that the band also had a solid feeling to the album’s completion. First, let us hear about your impression after you finished making this album.
My impression was … it’s finally finished sort of a feel (laugh). The recording took place from spring to summer. We really wanted to make it into a quality that would satisfy us.
―To do that, did you have many trial and error?
Yes, we did. First, last year’s Dozing Green became a single, which was the first song that would continue in Uroboros; but we really struggled since the time of production. After the mixing was done, we talked over and decided to start everything over.
―After finishing the mixing?
Yes, from the start to everything. We decided to have everything in a blank state.
―What part weren’t you satisfied with?
We thought we made a good single. But when our boss at the office listened to it, he said, “Isn’t there something wrong?” When you’re told like that, doesn’t that make you mad? “Then, well make something that’ll impress him,” so we decided to start over once more. We went into preproduction room and made a couple of songs.
―You went back to that process again.
Right after, we had our European tour, so we tried out stuff the hotel we stayed. After the show, the 5 members would get together that we haven’t done in a long time, and talk about “What should we do afterwards?” We don’t really have discussions. We don’t have any words on what we should do next when we’re making an album or a single. But we had the right amount of tiredness and alcohol that lead to this discussion. It was interesting because I found out how everyone was actually thinking a certain way. Honestly, I guess there are parts where we need to communicate through words. With Uroboros’ direction, it has a different heaviness to The Marrow of a Bone (07), but we talking that overall, it’s definitely dark.
―Are there any parts in the album where your influence is represented?
Rather than the songs and whatnot, I think it’s about our feelings. I think it was good how we had a discussion regarding the aspect of feelings. We were all down when Dozing Green before was eradicated. There was this feeling of what are going to do. Even so, we recreated it by going through the process once more, and I think that was good. Because we had this determination, we were able to reach Uroboros.
―Once again, I feel that this work has compressed Dir en grey’s world-view. Where do you find this stoic motivation to move forward?
As I said before, we really want satisfaction. We want a sense of giving our all. But because we’re dissatisfied, we end up making another album (laugh). This continues on and on.
―As long as you continue to be musicians, are you dissatisfied unless you raise the level of quality for each work?
Regarding quality, members and listeners all have their values, but I think anyone would have a feeling of how “I want to go over a hurdle.” For Uroboros, we arrived up to this point, so for the next album, I think we could go somewhere higher.
―For your style, as you mentioned before, there is a different heaviness in contrast to the last work where there are melodious songs, a tight, heavy rock approach, and I got the impression that you created your own sound.
I’m really happy you say that.
―When you listen to the bass part, I get the message how you can’t just fill in beats or play with a heavy sound to express heaviness.
I’m not too aware, but I always have the tendency to play that way. When I listen to the older albums, I would be playing loudly in many songs, but I began to restrain my beats in The Marrow of a Bone. But since I’ve reached this point, having what I’ve said in mind, I’m thinking of creating something new. I want to connect the past and the present more.
―Then, did you have any intention to make this a comprehensive album?
Whether you apprehend it as culmination or a show of will to move forward may make all the difference. If you say culmination, it feels like the end is near. So for me…of course there are parts that are a culmination, but I would like to make it as a first step considering what lies ahead.
―Was this work able to signify that?
I think it did. Considering my approach to bass, it’s rather simple. I feel there is all the answer there. I think this is the same whatever you do where the answer is actually simple. I feel like the answer is hidden somewhere close to you.
―That’s true. By making things simple, there is an aspect where anyone could do it, but it may not be looked in depth and be easily seen superficially.
I know, right? But even so, once you try out, surprisingly, you can’t do it. In this part, I think there is actually an infinite possibility.
―Even though it’s simple, I feel that the flexibility and softness from the phrases are the strengths in Toshiya-san’s play. For example, during a show, your position of picking has been closer to the front in the recent years, and I think that has to something to do with it.
The picking has gotten nearer to the front. But recently, depending on the song, I would bring it back to the rear a lot. I think I wanted to have the nuance of finger playing using a pick. I’ve been playing with my fingers frequently as I would have one phrase played near the rear, and in many cases, I would separate them. For the recording, I played with my fingers most of the time, and I only used a pick for Gaika, Chinmoku Ga Nemuru Koro, Red Soil, and Glass Skin.
―How is your playing style like? Is the touch on a softer side?
It’s a little soft. During recording, I didn’t put too much strength when I played. Rather, the engineer told me, “Can you put more power?” But during lives, it ends up being gnawing (note: ガリガリ[gari gari] is an onomatopoeia that Toshiya used).
―Considering your phrasing, I got the impression of you maintaining the bottom feeling and move only in the low range. Especially for Toguro and Glass Skin, they’re noteworthy.
The balance is low and I wanted the low to sound like it’s wriggling. Up to the point where the low range would be like, “Is it actually moving?”
―Rather than listening to the pitch, it’s a phrase you would sense then?
I guess so. Having that as a basis, there’s part that’s a crunch, and I thought it would be best to make a sound that would call one’s attention.
About DIR EN GREY
Towards the band
whom he spent more than 10 years
together
―What kind of musical personality does each member have? What do you think of Kyo (voice)-san?
I guess he’s very studious…. He’s a very voracious person and absorbs all kinds of music.
―Dir en grey changes their sound for each album, and do you think Kyo-san’s aspiration is showing?
I think that’s there, but even with the leader, Kaoru-kun (g), he listens to various types of music. He’s not just fixed to rock and listens to anything he could get his hands on. And, he is the most common-sensed person… I guess that’s what it’s called (laugh).
―That comment makes me curious (laugh).
It’s not common-sensed person, but I have the impression of him holding on to DIR EN GREY’s rein. I can’t say it well, but he’s the type of person who definitely wants to get involved.
―Is that for the band’s work and live?
He has to know about everything that has Dir en grey’s name on. He’s very mature and I don’t think we would be well-organized if he wasn’t there.
―Now, what do you think of Die-san (g)?
Die-kun is… We have two guitarists, but in a way, they’re two extremes. He’s different from Kaoru-kun’s sound, and the two are very contrasting. If Kaoru-kun has a wide field of vision, Die-kun has extreme precision over one thing. For example, his immersion over a chord work is astounding. That area may have something to do with our blood type (note: Some may know already, but Japanese tends to think that blood type has something to do with their personalities), but overall, type B would get absorbed into something they really love right?
―I saw the profile in my informational reading, apart from Kaoru-san who is type A, everyone else is type B.
That’s right (laugh). I think that’s why Kaoru-kun is the only one that could look around.
―That’s interesting (laugh). Lastly, what do you think of Shinya-san?
He is so, as far as I know, he is the most amazing drummer. That guy’s playing is all mathematics.
―Do you mean that he calculate his rhythm and the length of musical note with precision, and reenacts them?
I believe so… I don’t really want to praise him because he will get carried away (laugh).
Well, it’s a rare occasion (laugh).
I’m going to say this for this occasion, but I really give him credit.
―A drummer is someone who is heavily involved for a bassist right?
Yes. That’s what makes me so frustrated. Make the patterns easier (laugh). Add, subtract, multiply, divide, those detailed stuff… “Ah, so annoying” (laugh). I only live under my aesthesia so in that aspect, I’m really amazed by him.
―Each member has his role and character then.
To the point where it’s frightening, I have my position. Each one has a different gear. But if one of the gears is out of the alignment, it will never come together, and every time, there’s a sense of danger.
―Can you be specific when you mean by gears?
For example, there are many bands, and their reason to disband it incongruity of sound, but I don’t think that’s the case. I would think, “Basically, you don’t like that person right?” I have to say that DIR EN GREY did have that wave. Many things happened and at one moment, I would dislike a person (note: member) frequently. But in the end, when you dislike someone, more than yourself, the other person feels that even more.
―Right, right.
So I think it’s important that you accept that person and respect him. I may be like this and he’s probably like that.
― That person is different from you right?
Right, right. If you want to work self-centeredly, then don’t be in a band. If you work for a very long time, there will be collisions, but just because you idea differs from a person and reject him, in the end, nothing gets resolved.
―In that case, it’s not even a good idea to go solo.
Yes. But for me, going solo is absolutely not an option. For example, you’re in a band and you become a little popular. Then, “let’s do solo” for me is something that you should not do no matter what. Overall, I can only play bass, but if I could sing, play guitar, and play drums, I would probably not be in a band. Then, I would be doing solo from the beginning. Since I’ve continued for a certain period, there is my musical skill, and I’ve gained experience that enables me to calculate too. In that kind of a moment, if you go solo, that’s the worst thing ever. I feel like I’m throwing away my first impulse of wanting to be in a band. I don’t want to give that over; I don’t want to lose that.
―If you say the opposite, Toshiya-san is under the spell of the magic that exists in bands.
Yes. I really have that.
―By the way, what do you think of the band’s standing?
I still think they’re weird people (laugh)… I wonder why…? I guess I don’t want to lose against the four of them. I don’t care about winning or losing against another band. I really don’t care about that. I at least want to win against the four; rather, I want them to accept me. Of course, I accept the four and I think they’re great people.
―Because you want them to accept you, there is a sound that the five could produce, which is why you want to continue in the band.
I guess so. With this five people, it’s DIR EN GREY. Because there’s the five of us, we’re able to make this music. It’s still inspiring and I don’t know anyone else that could inspire me more.
02 Equipments
Next up, let’s analyze Toshiya’s sound with the equipments he uses. We would like to introduce the ones used during “Tour 08 The Rose Trims Again” and Sadowsky that was the main bass during recording.
Basses
ESP RU-DRIVE Silver Burst
The main bass for lives is the signature model ESP RU-DRIVE. He used the Gibson RD during the 70s that he personally owned as the design motif where it has ash body with maple neck and rosewood fingerboard as construction material. To obtain a thick sound, it uses 4 strings, 125 gauge as its feature where it has a particular way of tuning half-step down + drop C♯. Also, the control is 1 volume in 3 band EQ as a layout, without any balancer, and by adjusting two pickup’s tuning, it’s able to create a fond sound image. The coloring is silver burst, and at first, it may look gold because it was imaged to appear in a condition where the painting has burnt due to secular change, so the top coat was stained with yellow when the paint was applied. During lives, there is one back-up that is the same model and color.
DETAILS
1. The ESP logo plate on the head was originally designed by Toshiya himself.
2. To have maintenance as priority, the truss rod cover is taken off. Also, for down-tuning, to secure the string’s tension, you could note how the 4th string has a tension guide installed.
3. The pick-up cover is a soap bar type, but the interior is a J type single coil mounted. Currently, it mounts an ESP Custom Lab model. The preamp is also from the same Custom Lab where it’s CINNAMON 3 Band EQ.
4. The body’s back panel has a hole for trim where it’s possible to adjust the preamp gain. For trouble prevention, the battery box is sealed with tape.
5. The strap pin is installed on the joint plate’s bottom right together with the bis.
ESP RU- DRIVE 3 Tone Sun Burst
RU-DRIVE Sun Burst finish version. By putting on a hard relic work (a technique of coating peeling and scratches to recreate a texture looking it has been used for years) presenting a looks of a vintage instrument. The basic spec is the same as silver burst, but the pickup and layout are PJ type, which is the special trait. This has led a specific transition over the time and out of all the RU-DRIVEs, this is the only one that has this characteristic. During lives, all the strings are tuned one sound down. This model appeared in Glass Skin’s PV.
ESP RU-DRIVE White
This white model was previously known as the main bass. Currently, it’s used as a warm-up bass at back stage. This uses Seymour Duncan’s Vintage J type and ESP’s KH-1 preamp as electronics, the pick guard’s shape, the body not having binding, and having an elbow cut are the parts that differ from the main instrument. In addition, when this bass was first made, it was tuned one and a half sound down where it was a time when down tuning was used frequently, and to be able to produce a tight low sound, Bubinga top + Mahogany Back became its construction material, which is another thing to note.
ESP HALIBUT-ASH
Before, Lakeland’s 55-94 Classic was used as a 5-string bass, but in recent years, it shifted to ESP’s HALIBUT-ASH. As a result of making the sound soft and considering the long-term tour maintenance, the nut is changed to cow bone (the commercial product uses stainless). For tuning difference, there is another same model that uses stainless nut with 5-strings, 125 low B-string, A-string on the fourth, D-string on the third, G-string on the second, and 032 high C-string on the first. This is a method of down-tuning a 4-string bass with a high B added.
Morris MRB-1
This was prepared for the acoustic set for this tour where the tuning is set to half-sound down+ the 4th string to be C♯. This MRB-1 body side has a control part where it includes bass, middle, treble, presence, 4 EQ installed where the wide variety of sound making is possible. For acoustic bass, there is one more that is Aria FEB -2A that is regularly tuned and does not belong to Toshiya, but it was prepared as a rented instrument.
Sadowsky NYC 5 Strings J Bass
During recording, Sadowsky’s 5 stringed bass became the main bass during recording. All the bass sound in Uroboros recording is from this instrument. Jason Newsted (ex. Metallica, Voivod) was known to use products from this same company as a favorite, and this was re-created model of the one he had, but since the NYC line does not make the Jason model, there is a high possibility of it being an original order. For 5 strings/24 fret, in many cases, this company tends to have a spec that has a soap bar type pick up installed, and in that sense, this is a rare model.
Asking the Production Representative
“Persistency towards an instrument”
Kunio Asakura
ESP Marketing Developing Room/ Artist Relation
Here, we would like to know more about the signature model’s particular specs, and we conducted an interview with Mr. Asakura who is in charge of the RU-DRIVE’s production.
Recently, he seems to be obsessed about “the sound’s persuasion.”
―Concerning development, did Gibson’s RD became a model?
I guess so. It’s based on 1977 RD that he brought to us. Even so, we tweaked the body shape and the neck is arranged around a lot. The original Gibson had a long neck, and it was constructed by having it deeply into the body, but since Toshiya is tall, the instrument looks small on him. So, we made the neck go out on the head side, and with that, we have the bridge in the middle when it’s usually towards the bottom, and it’s made so that the neck would look long. That way, when he has it on, the balance is better.
―From changing the White to the current Sun Burst model, were there any improving points?
In general, we changed the material for the body. Recently, he hasn’t be saying too much about creating low sounds, so from Bubinga Top and Mahogany Back, we changed it to Ash instead. Rather than creating sounds on an active route, we pictured a normal bass, tight with low-mid. We also have the width of the nut thick when the white one uses a nut used on a jazz bass, which is a thin stock (38mm), but now it’s a thick stock (38mm) like the purebe (note: Japanese way to say the P Bass). He has thick strings on and because of that, the neck becomes strained, so we also had an aim to make the neck stronger.
―How did you deal with down-tuning?
For that, we put an angle when we installed the neck, made the peg uneven… We actually had to put a stop to that in the end though… Also, we put on a tension pin as one solution. Toshiya is persistent about the string’s tension where he likes the string’s spring back to be stronger when he strums with his pick.
―For the bass itself, what was one thing Toshiya-san was really persistent about?
Simply put, I think he wants the design to be cool and have a really thick sound…This search is probably an eternal challenge for him. In the past, he talked about making something interesting, but lately, he’s obsessed about “the sound’s persuasion”. It’s weird to say but he has grown up (laugh). From my standing, he is becoming a good bassist.
Amplifiers and Effectors
The head amp and effects are organized in the back and its manipulation id done by the bass tech. On the top left area, from the top, there is an Avalon design U5 (DI), Ex-pro’s PRO-10B (wireless receiver), and Korg DTR-2000 (tuner). On the bottom rack, there is a head amp, AMPEG SVT-2PRO. This is set up with ultra-low switched on, boosting to mid-range with the knob, and bringing up the mid-high range with a graphic equalizer. Gain is in a squeezed state with the master brought up, and the amp itself is set up to produce a clean sound.
The bottom left area has extra head amps are stored. Both of them are AMPEG SVT and the top one was a prepared as a sub, which is the 80s model whereas the bottom one is the 70s original SVT.
On the bottom of the rack, there is BOSS’S FV-300 (volume pedal), Rocktron’s ALL ACCESS that is a foot controller to change the effectors.
On the top right area, there are many effectors lined up. From the top, Furman’s PL PLUS J (Power supply), mtLab’s Split box, mtLab’s line selector, Rocktron’s PatchMate to control the effectors, Multi Valve that is Rocktron’s vacuum valve built-In multi-effector. For pedals, on the top left in a clockwise direction, there are Power Supply (Guyatone), two of TECH 21’s Sun’s Amp Bass Driver DI, Commune Centurion’s Scream Mk-II (Distortion), as well as the Fuzz, EBS’s Uni-chorus (chorus). Having many distortion pedals is a specific trait, and both Sun’s amp are set up with different tones.
On stage where the audience could see, only the speaker cabinet is set up. The cabinet has AMPEG’s SVT-810, which is painted white, and the monitor is not near the feet but set up near the rear is the Toshiya-way. Towards the left, on top of the cabinet, there is a slip resistance sheet placed on as well as small objects like KORG’s DTR-1 (tuner), spare picks, and finger board lubricant.
The white mic stand for Toshiya’s chorus part. It’s not the boom type, but a straight stand that is usually preferred by vocalists, but, this again shows Toshiya’s particular trait.
Credit: Cammie !