On Supernatural's Treatment of Pagan Religions

[jisatsu_ganbu]

(I'm so excited I get to break out the Holy Bacon Cheeseburger icon I may faint from all the glee! Macros to break up the thesis-like wall of text forthcoming.)

My friend Eric posted a message on Tiwtter recently that piqued my interests, both as rabid Supernatural fan and as a Pagan:

wwahammy: Just saw a Supernatural episode where non Judeo

Comments

[ext_266461]

I like Christian mythology as well; don't get my wrong. I think much of it is mysterious and beautiful even if I don't believe it. I also think the history of Christianity is fascinating, especially how certain beliefs became accepted while others were thrown out.

In fairness, I've never watched the show until today and I only saw half of this episode. All that said, I thought the dismissive treatment of non-Christian gods was totally out of line. The dialog was... shockingly insulting. I don't have a clue what I SHOULD expect from that show though. Maybe the treatment is normal for religions on the show, maybe some of the dialog was normal for the show I don't know. When I hear protagonists on a TV show casually degrading the deities that hundreds of millions of people still worship, I think its offensive. A "good guy" on TV referred to deities, many of which are still worshiped by primarily non-white people as "primitive screw heads." That's getting damn close to racist.

[jisatsu_ganbu]

Which character, though? I don't remember the dialogue specifically for this episode - it's been awhile since I've seen it. I'd expect the outburst from Dean (being frustrated) or Gabriel (because he's an antagonistic dickhead), but I can't remember who else was in the episode. I wouldn't classify Gabriel as a "good guy" either, so that might be where some of the confusion lies, too.

I suppose it's hard for you to tell me who said what because you don't watch it regularly. Maybe I'll dig up the episode tomorrow and re-watch it.

[jisatsu_ganbu]

I did a quick quote search and in this episode, Gabriel also refers to angels as "winged ass-monkeys". So ... there's that.

Also, here's the full text of what you're referencing:

Dean: All right you primitive screw heads, listen up.
Sam: Are you out of your mind?
Dean: I'm out of options.

It wasn't him so much denegrating them, as it was him trying to piss them off so they would help them fight Lucifer.

Which half of the episode did you see?

[ext_266461]

Last half.

I don't care the reasoning. Using the word "primitive" like that is totally out of line.

[jisatsu_ganbu]

I'm really confused at your leap in reasoning here.

Dean doesn't believe what he's saying. That's the whole point of the scene. No one is denigrating anyone - Dean just used the exact worst words he possibly could, not believing what he's saying but just saying it to make someone else angry, which happens all the time in fiction. And real life.

The brother's fear at Dean's outburst is also important: because they recognize and respect the power the other Gods have.

I would completely agree with you if in context Dean and Sam believed what they were saying, because that wouldn't be right. Unsavory viewpoints happen in fiction, and it's purpose is to reflect poorly on the character. But the way it's written in this scene is clear that the audience isn't supposed to support this viewpoint. The character's sharing it don't even support it!

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I'm curious now: what's your take on "The Primitive" being another name for "The First Slayer" on Buffy?

[ext_266461]

I'm saying how I took it. Again, the fact I don't know anything about the show probably taints my viewpoint. I just felt extremely uncomfortable with the way it was presented.

I don't have a take on "The Primitive" being used for the name of "The First Slayer" because I don't know anything about it. It depends on who "The First Slayer" is, their background, etc. The word primitive isn't necessarily offensive but in the context of referring to the deities worshiped by people who have been considered "primitives" for racist reasons, I found it offensive.

[ext_266461]

After Googling for the First Slayer and seeing that the First Slayer is a black woman with dreads, white face paint and a seemingly limited amount of clothes, I'd say that's also racist. The only reason that is slightly (very slightly) more defensible than the Supernatural episode is that the line of slayers is something that occurs over time. Someone in the past could be called "primitive" and that's not nearly as offensive (although its not great) as referring to someone who currently exists. Then again, using primitive as a noun may negate all that. This to some extent is subtle stuff so its not easy or cut and dried and everyone is going to feel a little differently.

I can't speak for Indians who worship Ganesh or Kali but considering many Europeans considered them primitives I would expect them to be offended by that line. The writers had blinders to the racial implications of what they wrote. They could have come up with a line that was less racist and disrespectful.