Proposition 8
And California has just passed a law that has whittled away at the civil liberties of one in ten (approx) of its citizens. That is so disappointing.
ETA: Florida too, although they're calling it Proposition 2, and Arizona, I don't know what they're calling it.
ETA: Florida too, although they're calling it Proposition 2, and Arizona, I don't know what they're calling it.
As you were careful of your wording I'll attempt to be careful with mine.
That isn't fear of Other, that's sincere moral belief.
I respectfully disagree with your conclusion. An ability to say one is motivated by a moral belief doesn't negate one's true motivation being fear of Other. Indeed someone holding a belief that something is morally wrong can be a strong source of fear of Other as they have defined that Other as being morally wrong.
You may consider them to be sincerely wrongheaded...
I believe them to be "sincerely wronghead," and I believe them to be scared of Other. I believe to describe it as "utterly appalling that such an abomination is encouraged in any way," and to be willing to "say and do anything and use any argument" shows clearly their motivation and guiding principal is fear not moral rectitude. I believe when someone is prepared to "say and do anything" and "use any argument" they aren't being guided by high morals. They're being ruled by irrational fears.
...but that doesn't solve anything.
*Nods.* Neither a failure to appreciate that some believe homosexuality is an abomination, nor a belief that homosexuality is an abomination are conducive to finding middle ground on the subject of gay rights. It's my hope that, however slowly, eventually less people will be governed by irrational fear of homosexuals and people will be more able and willing to recognize the civil rights of homosexuals.
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(scratches head)
I'm sorry, I really don't follow the logic, here. Am I confused, or are you saying that moral disapproval equals fear? Because that doesn't make sense to me.
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Yes, you're confused.
No, I wasn't saying moral disapproval equals fear.
In a wordier possibly less polite answer. You implied by stating, "That isn't fear of Other, that's sincere moral belief," that moral disapproval and fear are mutually exclusive. I was saying they aren't mutually exclusive. Expressing moral disapproval based on belief in a particular interpretation of certain passages of the Bible doesn't equal being a cowardly bigot hiding one's fear and hatred behind the Bible. But cowardly bigots are perfectly capable of hiding their fear and hatred behind the Bible. I would say jinxed_wood may have failed to acknowledge that some people object to homosexuals being given their rights because they feel the behavior of homosexuals is morally wrong. You failed to acknowledge that some people who claim to object to homosexuals being given their rights on moral grounds are in fact cowardly bigots using the Bible as a tool.
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Uh, I should point out that I did reply to kerravonsen's comment, but I then deleted it when I realised that it brought up a whole load of other issues I have about mixing religion with politics and civil government, and my own personal experiences as an Irish person (all together now, can we say Sectarianism?) The Old Testamant does not belong in the constitution of a modern democracy, even in a Christian one.
As a woman, I've become quite attached to my present human rights and civil liberties, and I don't see how I would have the right to deny a person those same rights. There is a difference between living by one's own beliefs and forcing others to follow them as well.
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*Hugs.* I saw your reply before you deleted it, and I had wondered why you decided to delete it.
The Old Testament does not belong in the constitution of a modern democracy, even in a Christian one.
Get no argument from me. I'm a firm believer in separation of church and state. I was talking with another friend earlier today about how my parents have always told me Jesus Christ taught separation of church and state. I appreciate when someone says they don't believe in "gay marriage" but do believe in "gay civil unions" because I believe they're progressing towards realizing that a "civil marriage" and a "sacred" marriage are two different things.
There is a difference between living by one's own beliefs and forcing others to follow them as well.
Absolutely.
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