RAINN on Rape Culture

[jimhines]

Will Shetterly wrote a blog post asking if I had addressed “RAINN’s refutation of ‘rape culture’” yet. I’m writing this less to respond to Shetterly and more because I think there’s some good conversation to be had around RAINN’s recommendations. But I should warn folks that by invoking his name and linking to his blog post, I’m basically

Comments

[tylik]

I get all stabby when I hear about how women should take martial arts classes, or when people smugly explain how their now three year old daughter is going to take martial arts classes. And take this in context - I'm a 5'11", broad shouldered muscular martial artist and martial arts instructor. I can not think of anyone among my (many, mostly male) sparring partners with whom I've been overwhelmed by size, weight or strength. (I certainly have sparred with people bigger and stronger than I, though they aren't the majority of people I've sparred with. And I'm not saying it couldn't happen - darn, I want to spend more time with such people on the mat, because that sounds like a great bout - but it keeps not happening.) All things being remotely equal - and of course they're unlikely to be, because what kind of predator is cruising for a fair fight? - I have a far better than average chance to fighting off a physical attacker. Possibly even a few physical attackers. ...and mostly, that's barely relevant. (Even before you get to the bits about threat assessment and situational awareness being far more useful than being able to fight.)

Mind you, I'm a major supporter of martial arts education. I just think that particular line of thinking is dumb.

[rimrunner]

Totally agreed. I study martial arts as well, though I don't teach it. I am regularly outclassed in terms of size and weight by my partners--currently all of them are men, and I'm pretty small: 5'4" and around 145 lbs, which means the nearest of them in terms of weight has about 25 pounds on me. I'm okay with this because in an actual confrontation an assailant is likely to be bigger and stronger than I am, so knowing how to deal with that is huge.

I'll freely advocate for it if I'm talking with someone who is interested in exploring this option. What I see all too often, though, is people treating it as a sort of good luck charm, which all too easily segues into blaming behavior--like, you know martial arts, why didn't you fight him off? A dude I know with major training was once knocked unconscious by a shoplifter who had a brick in her purse, so...

I have taught risk assessment and situational awareness, and I think that stuff is way more useful. It's gotten me out of a few potentially sticky situations, for sure.

One of the issues I have with advocating for martial arts and the like is that the presented scenario is still very much of the stranger-in-the-bushes sort, and a lot of the people who do it also seem to be in favor of treating everyone you meet as a potential threat, which is not how I prefer to go through life.

[tylik]

Being able to fight is great, and all (though I'm totally with you about treating everyone as a threat - and also the outsized perception of risk you get in some crowds) but honestly it just doesn't strike me as the biggest gain from martial arts. (Even assuming it's a practical martial art, and certainly many oversell their self defense capabilities.)

But yeah, we know the out and out attack scenario is relatively rare. And greater physical confidence might help with some of the intimidation based scenarios... but still, pretty often not, I suspect. I think back to the time I was raped when I was barely 18 (at Norwescon XIV). I was willing to have sex with him - out of boredom and ennui rather than interest, but still - but I was utterly unwilling to have sex without a condom. But he'd agreed to a condom. Until he didn't, and at that point he both had mechanical advantage, and a knife within reach. (I've had a lot more training since then. It might make a difference, were I to be in such a position again? I'm not at all certain.)

[rimrunner]

And that's exactly the kind of scenario that people advocating for this often don't consider. I haven't been raped, but I have been assaulted. Would training have helped? I honestly don't know.

I'm sorry that happened to you.

[tylik]

And yet, even there, it was more straightforward than many. He wasn't a friend. I wasn't particularly conflicted (well a bit, but it was more "How much physical injury am I willing to risk to avoid this guy's bodily fluids?" rather than worrying about a friendship, or a social circle, or my reputation, or whether by saying no outright I would sacrifice some kind of leverage that might allow me to finesse my way out of the situation.) I said no, clearly and repeatedly. I struggled.

[socchan]

Not to mention when senior students or even instructors are the rapists. (Not saying it of you, or even necessarily anyone you know, just another reason why "take martial arts" isn't a perfect 'solution'.)

[rimrunner]

Oh, absolutely. While I trust the guys I train with, there's always the possibility that trust is misplaced-and I've definitely met a few people in the greater community that I wouldn't want to be alone in a room with.

[tylik]

Particular considering all those incidents of instructors specifically teaching rape defence who went on to rape their students some years back.

[northernwalker]

Yeah, I loved my krav maga courses and found them very useful for talking about situational awareness, but there's still the reality that I'm a 5'4" female weighing maybe 140 at max.

[tylik]

Well, clearly that is a reality, but it's almost the opposite of my point. I'm tall, I'm strong, I'm well trained. If it's about fighting on something like even terms, I'm your girl. But I'm not saying "that's not enough, even for me" - really, here, I'm on the side of Rory Miller's comment about how strange is it that a 120 pound woman assumes she can't take on a 200 pound man, but a 8 pound cat doesn't haven't a problem with it. Strength and size matter, but knowing what to do with what you have can matter more.

However, all that talk is based on two deeply fault assumptions. The first (and less significant) is that it's something like a fair fight. If they are many. If they are armed. (Yes, I've trained at unarmed defense against firearms. Some. It's seriously not on my list of things to do if I can at all avoid it. Though keeping distance and committing rape are going to be hard for a single individual...) If you are for whatever reason in poor shape to fight. Etc. etc.

But the second is even more important, which is that it assumes that it's a fight, and most rape isn't structured that way. We are all of us, women and men, vulnerable sometimes. The idea that we can make ourselves invulnerable is fundamentally flawed.

[serialbabbler]

really, here, I'm on the side of Rory Miller's comment about how strange is it that a 120 pound woman assumes she can't take on a 200 pound man, but a 8 pound cat doesn't haven't a problem with it.

I don't know. If it came to a fight with me or a fight with one of my cats, I'd put my money on the cat, too. She's got sharper claws and teeth than I do. Plus, being dramatically smaller than a 200 pound man means that she can hit him quick and then duck into a smaller space than he'd be able to fit into. As a 120 pound, rather clumsy, extremely near sighted woman, my best bet is to avoid the fight entirely. (Of course, that's also what my cat would prefer to do. Sensible creatures, cats.)