When to Walk Away

[jimhines]

Since a number of people said I should go ahead and do it, I’ve created a Jim C. Hines Fan Page over on Facebook.  I blame you all.

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I found myself in several Internet squabbles last week.  One started on Twitter after one of my #Amazonfail posts.  In that case, the other person and I swapped e-mails, and that was the end of it.  I don’t think we

Comments

[chris_gerrib]

I find myself in this problem all the time.

[nightwolfwriter]

I participate in a rather free-wheeling bulletin board for the K.C.Chiefs. Most of the posters are reasonably rational (for fans that is), but of course, there's always the contingent that either a)loves to argue or b) is always right and will never consider the fact they could be mistaken.

Some of the people on the board seem to enjoy these "altercations". Pesonally, I find a judicious use of the "ignore" function works well.

My on-line philosophy has become "Life's too short to deal with internet idiots. Ignore and move on." (I think that comes from my old days on Compuserve *grin*)

[jimhines]

It's Staples that had the ad campaign about the Easy Button, right?

Heck with that. I want an Ignore Button!

[saetter]

It's the blinking Power button on your computer. ;)

Or the power button on your router.

Something I need to use more often.

[bearhand]

Sometimes when you have a front row seat to an internet flame war, it's like watching chimps throw poo at each other. They become angrier and angrier, screaming and jumping up and down shrieking louder and louder and throwing poo harder and faster, never realizing that the poo they are flinging, soils them as much as it does their opponent.

Not that I've watched you throw poo, your disagreements on your journal have always been civil, so I'd be interested in seeing what made you mad and how you responded. I'm betting for most of us veteran poo flingers, your's wouldn't even reach the rank of little lemur.

[jimhines]

Yep. I've been in squabbles where I find myself starting to feel soiled just by association, and wondering if I'm starting to come off just as badly as the other person.

Things here have generally been mild and respectful, and I love that. I've tried to work to keep that tone, and I think the community of people who hang out here have done the same, building those expectations and standards. It's really nice.

[mtlawson]

Yeah, the howler monkey aspect of a good old flame war (or holy war, if you hang out on talk.origins) is the most appealing thing to watch; kind of like watching a car crash. What sucks is if you're in the middle of one.

[bearhand]

Yeah, being a spectator in one of those is always much preferred to being a participant. The amount of damage you can take on your internet machizimo (?) is astonishing.

[j_e_richards]

Years ago the cartoonist Donna Barr summed it up "If you win an argument with an idiot, what does that make you?" I've tried to make that my mantra, but sometimes the lizard brain takes over before the edit function kicks in.

[jimhines]

There's a quote about fighting in the mud with a pig that fits pretty well too. (You both end up filthy, and the pig enjoys it.)

[barbarienne]

The lesson I learned in a lifetime of riding the NYC subways: "Do not engage with the crazy people."

[cathshaffer]

One thing to remember about people who are horribly, tragically wrong is that if you point this out to them, they may reject it violently, and you feel like you haven't done any good. [using the general 'you' here, not specifically YOU] However, conversion is often a gradual process. Even if you feel like you've failed to make a point, you may have made an impression on that person that over time will shift their thinking. This is why it's very important to step away at the right time, because persisting in an argument after you've made your point, you risk losing this benefit, of having your very good point simmer slowly in the background. Also important, I think, and often forgotten is that the graceful way to win a fight is to let the other person save face--once you've made what you think is the winning argument, throw them a small concession so they don't look like an idiot. "Thanks for sharing your perspective with me. I'll think about it." or "I can see how you would feel that way, given your experience." These are not lies--

[jimhines]

In some cases, yes. There are those, however, that I believe are completely incapable of accepting a worldview that doesn't mesh with their own beliefs. Sometimes I think it should be a listed disorder in the DSM.

You're right, though. The soft approach does tend to work so much better in a lot of cases. I think of it as online aikido :-)

[cathshaffer]

Yes, exactly. I think the best defense is being able to identify them early so you don't overcommit--maybe think about who the audience is, like you said above, rather than about how to change that person's mind.

[coppervale]

Or, they're simply determined to 'win' the argument, even in the face of overwhelming proof. They'll just keep changing the goalposts on you, while you stick to the facts which were irrelevant to them to begin with.